TOPIC: No Token Nightmare Run

Would it be possible/complete-able to do a Nightmare mode (or any mode) run with absolutely no tokens (or as little tokens as possible)?


The Idea I have for this character is like an all 7 Vow Monk from D&D's "The Book of Exalted Deeds" or the Pathfinder equivalent vows, including the Vow of Poverty.

I think you'd have to hit pure 20s while the DM hit close to pure 1s to accomplish this.

No tokens - No.

As little tokens as possible - Of course. But that's a very broad definition.

Some players tried a 5 man, sealed hardcore run at GHC. It did not go well.

Arnold wrote: As little tokens as possible - Of course. But that's a very broad definition.

Alright, that sounds pretty cool, since the Vow of Poverty allows around 7 worthless mundane items (a bowl, a spoon, a robe, a quarterstaff sized stick, etc).

So what would be the minimal amount of mundane items needed for a Nightmare run with a monk?

Even on Normal, I don't think a "no token" run would work. Certainly not for melee or ranged characters--their damage would be extremely limited without a weapon or damage potion token. (I'm not sure if sliding an empty puck would trigger default character card damage or not--if not, non-casters would be nearly useless in combat rooms.) The spell-casters would be only slightly better off--no tokens means no Focus bonus to healing or damage spells, or polymorph damage. And no one would be able to boost HP, AC, or saves beyond what is on the character card, making everyone easy pickings for the monsters. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see "no tokens" being survivable.

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Even on Normal, I don't think a "no token" run would work. Certainly not for melee or ranged characters--their damage would be extremely limited without a weapon or damage potion token. (I'm not sure if sliding an empty puck would trigger default character card damage or not--if not, non-casters would be nearly useless in combat rooms.) The spell-casters would be only slightly better off--no tokens means no Focus bonus to healing or damage spells, or polymorph damage. And no one would be able to boost HP, AC, or saves beyond what is on the character card, making everyone easy pickings for the monsters. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see "no tokens" being survivable.

it could work on normal. you would not survive the last room if it was combat but if it wasn’t then only 3 rooms of comat. druid, cleric, bard, both wizards, paladin, monk, dwarf fighter (for taunting).
Combat 1 wizards use all 1st lvl spells do 60 pints of damage over 5 rounds. monk does another 50 on average if all slides hit..i think.
Combat 2 wizards use all 2nd lvl spells hit for 66 over 3 rounds. monk for 30. Druid could add another 33 if needed in 3 rounds. (it might be better if the wizards use 2nd level spell in 1st combat to short number of rounds and length rounds in combat 2. i will look at the module for N2 when i get to work.
Combat 3. wizards do 72 in 2 rounds (using clerics store power on elf wizard). monk 20. druid 42( with spell surge) another 14 if the cleric can restore power.
i will have to look at damage output in the module and compare that to the healing of druid, cleric and paladin. bard can add 26 spell damage where needed, or sing to give monk +2 (one for each puck) damage each round. i would not expect the wizards to survive the 3rd combat but after they blow all their spells they are expendable.

most folks play with only a single 10 pack on normal. it doesn’t get you much besidesa little more ac if you are lucky and a weapon. weapons definitely would help a lot for non casters for i think there is enough damage output without weapons for a team that was designed for this. again i will double check against the module when i get to work.

i should note i think an entire party without tokens would work. a single character i don’t think so. i tired non-lethal sealed on N3 and it did not work.

I would say at the very least you would need weapons so the gm could calculate damage. We have some gimmie numbers we fill in for classes armors equivalent to a common if they dont have armor already so those values would be triggered. I think normal would be fine if you meshed as a group and didnt take to much push damage. You probably wouldn't win the last combat, but you could very likely make it through to the end.

On nightmare I'd say no, just because the higher monster ACs would be unhittable, your best strategy would probably be to sandbag, give the monster as few attacks as possible, and just take the push damage. Though that might not be the most fun.

In 2005 and earlier... maybe 2006... it was totally possible to do TD with no Tokens to very basic ones. Now? Not possible. Power Creep has put a stop to that.

Unless a group is doing Non-Lethal. But they'll still die... a lot.

At TDC I was part of a group that did a 7 token nightmare challenge. It was effectively 5 tokens as everyone used their treasure enhancers. We succeeded, but it was a strong group of players who worked well together.


Nightmare is more difficult now than it was then. I dont think it would work now.

No tokens? No chance.

Maybe a one token run
On normal, if you already know
The puzzles,
The one token will be a weapon for
Most character classes.

Sealed pack Viper's Pit at Gen Con this year was a struggle. Only 1 of 10 survived.

Challenge accepted. Looking for 9 brave adventures to do a 3 token challenge of N2 at Orgins. The 3 tokens will be CoA, ISSN, ISGN. I will post in another tread to see if I can get foolish people to join.

Ice beast had 125 health on normal.
Troll shaman had 200.
Frost Giants 125 each.