TOPIC: Old School D&D Nostalgia Time

Brad Mortensen wrote: @KurtReznor - Re: Mistletoe - that’s what I get for posting before coffee.

And yes, Restore Spell is fine. But I’ve never wasted a standard action casting Bless, let alone Guidance, unless it was a free round.

When i was lobbying for the Eld Kilt to be +6 DEX, just like it’s +6 CON, I was told the problem isn’t with the Kilt, it’s with Cleric.

So now you’re saying the problem isn’t with Cleric, it’s with me. Could be.

I started playing Cleric early on because nobody else in my parties would play it, and I felt like someone had to. And it was great in 2012, with all the undead. But I’m finding it less and less fun. It just feels like all the other classes are getting lots of fun toys, and the ones we had are getting taken away. I get that most people do not understand the Eldritch Kilt joins the Eldritch set, LoDS, and CoS as the fourth big nerf of the year, because they wanted the HP anyway.

So you’re right. Maybe I should just switch classes.

The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

If we're reworking the party cards int he near future, I'm hoping clerics can get bumped up 2 dex as a hopefully relatively painless fix after this year =/

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

It's like someone rolled stats for all the classes in lieu of balancing them against one another. XD

Picc wrote:

Flik wrote:

archmage78 wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: You could just juggle around your items to get the Dex you need. There was a post with Dexterity based items to add, and I think that there were 26-27 in points you can utilize to increase the Dex. You do have a vast library ?

I think there does not have to be the ultimate build for all of the classes and perhaps people need to make harder choices to get what they want. IMO

Lower the Con, raise the Strength??

Not using any plus-CON to give up

You’re missing the point. I don’t want it solved for me. I can deal. I want it solved for Clerics in general.

Maybe I should just give up Cleric. ATM it just doesn’t feel like the game is geared towards us. Get the Druids to heal you when they aren’t shapeshifting.

Dude, the cleric is one of the best classes. Now, what it seems that you are saying is that despite that you can do an unbelievable amount of healing which is what that class is, you are upset that you have a hard time using the best weapon in the game. One of the big problems in the game is that we are turning every character into the same thing. You are a cleric, you don't exactly need to do 1000 points of damage. It is a great time to be a cleric because you can maximize your healing the millionth degree.

Hard to be calm against that argument but significant healer nerfs happen this year and your defense is all our massive healing? Make the cleric only heal no one will play it. All other games always have a severe lack of people wanting to play healers.

Agreed, pigeonholing people is never good even if healing is the clerics primary responsibility they've been able to wear heavy armor and attack ever since 3rd.1st

fixed it for you

Azzy wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

It's like someone rolled stats for all the classes in lieu of balancing them against one another. XD

Yeah I suspect something like that occurred. some classes got the shaft while others made out like a bandit.
I hope for a point by so they are all even.

valetutto wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

It's like someone rolled stats for all the classes in lieu of balancing them against one another. XD

Yeah I suspect something like that occurred. some classes got the shaft while others made out like a bandit.
I hope for a point by so they are all even.

Or just take the same 6 numbers and assign as necessary.

Our stats are generally much higher than a typical point buy would allow for.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

It's like someone rolled stats for all the classes in lieu of balancing them against one another. XD

Yeah I suspect something like that occurred. some classes got the shaft while others made out like a bandit.
I hope for a point by so they are all even.

Or just take the same 6 numbers and assign as necessary.

Our stats are generally much higher than a typical point buy would allow for.

I think even values is good, but using the same 6 stats assigned to relevant stats I wouldn't want - that would mean Barbarians and Fighters end up with the same strength, and Bards and Rangers end up with the same DEX.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

It's like someone rolled stats for all the classes in lieu of balancing them against one another. XD

Yeah I suspect something like that occurred. some classes got the shaft while others made out like a bandit.
I hope for a point by so they are all even.

Or just take the same 6 numbers and assign as necessary.

Our stats are generally much higher than a typical point buy would allow for.

I think even values is good, but using the same 6 stats assigned to relevant stats I wouldn't want - that would mean Barbarians and Fighters end up with the same strength, and Bards and Rangers end up with the same DEX.

Assuming stats are limited to th odd numbers between 9 and 19, there are only six values to chose from for 12 classes. There will be lots and lots of duplicate values.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

It's like someone rolled stats for all the classes in lieu of balancing them against one another. XD

Yeah I suspect something like that occurred. some classes got the shaft while others made out like a bandit.
I hope for a point by so they are all even.

Or just take the same 6 numbers and assign as necessary.

Our stats are generally much higher than a typical point buy would allow for.

I think even values is good, but using the same 6 stats assigned to relevant stats I wouldn't want - that would mean Barbarians and Fighters end up with the same strength, and Bards and Rangers end up with the same DEX.

Assuming stats are limited to th odd numbers between 9 and 19, there are only six values to chose from for 12 classes. There will be lots and lots of duplicate values.

That’s true today to.

I’m just saying I don’t favor a proposal like: 17, 15, 13, 11, 11, 11 - assign those 6 numbers to the 6 stats of each character.

I would prefer something like:

Each class has 32 build points, which are used to buy stats at the costs below.

Stats cost:
8 - 0 points
9 - 1
10 - 2
11 - 3
12 - 4
13 - 5
14 - 7
15 - 9
16 - 12
17 - 15

This allows classes to have different stats - especially in their highest stat value, while still being in some kind of balance.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

It's like someone rolled stats for all the classes in lieu of balancing them against one another. XD

Yeah I suspect something like that occurred. some classes got the shaft while others made out like a bandit.
I hope for a point by so they are all even.

Or just take the same 6 numbers and assign as necessary.

Our stats are generally much higher than a typical point buy would allow for.

I think even values is good, but using the same 6 stats assigned to relevant stats I wouldn't want - that would mean Barbarians and Fighters end up with the same strength, and Bards and Rangers end up with the same DEX.

Assuming stats are limited to th odd numbers between 9 and 19, there are only six values to chose from for 12 classes. There will be lots and lots of duplicate values.

That’s true today to.

I’m just saying I don’t favor a proposal like: 17, 15, 13, 11, 11, 11 - assign those 6 numbers to the 6 stats of each character.

I would prefer something like:

Each class has 32 build points, which are used to buy stats at the costs below.

Stats cost:
8 - 0 points
9 - 1
10 - 2
11 - 3
12 - 4
13 - 5
14 - 7
15 - 9
16 - 12
17 - 15

This allows classes to have different stats - especially in their highest stat value, while still being in some kind of balance.

Druid and Wizard have 19s at 4th level, so any point buy system needs to cover up to there. That is unless people want to open the can of worms of lowering existing stats... There will probably be a lot less gnashing of teeth if you set the point buy baseline based of the current high end though.

Also, even stats we're purposely removed from character cards last go round I believe, so you probably don't need to list them out in the point buy system.

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

It's like someone rolled stats for all the classes in lieu of balancing them against one another. XD

Yeah I suspect something like that occurred. some classes got the shaft while others made out like a bandit.
I hope for a point by so they are all even.

Or just take the same 6 numbers and assign as necessary.

Our stats are generally much higher than a typical point buy would allow for.

I think even values is good, but using the same 6 stats assigned to relevant stats I wouldn't want - that would mean Barbarians and Fighters end up with the same strength, and Bards and Rangers end up with the same DEX.

Assuming stats are limited to th odd numbers between 9 and 19, there are only six values to chose from for 12 classes. There will be lots and lots of duplicate values.

That’s true today to.

I’m just saying I don’t favor a proposal like: 17, 15, 13, 11, 11, 11 - assign those 6 numbers to the 6 stats of each character.

I would prefer something like:

Each class has 32 build points, which are used to buy stats at the costs below.

Stats cost:
8 - 0 points
9 - 1
10 - 2
11 - 3
12 - 4
13 - 5
14 - 7
15 - 9
16 - 12
17 - 15

This allows classes to have different stats - especially in their highest stat value, while still being in some kind of balance.

Druid and Wizard have 19s at 4th level, so any point buy system needs to cover up to there. That is unless people want to open the can of worms of lowering existing stats... There will probably be a lot less gnashing of teeth if you set the point buy baseline based of the current high end though.

Also, even stats we're purposely removed from character cards last go round I believe, so you probably don't need to list them out in the point buy system.

Fortunately, the only two lvl4 classes that have 19s have them in mental stats, which are presently the super under-utilized stats. Perfect time to balance now if they are looking to do something to make those stats more relevant in the future.

Azzy wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?

Character cards. The sum of Druid’s stats is 10 higher than the sum of Cleric’s. (They’re +4 DEX, +4 CON and +2 WIS over Clerics, so I hope that gap gets addressed.)

It’s apparently going to be at least two years before Cleric’s get their legendary.

It's like someone rolled stats for all the classes in lieu of balancing them against one another. XD

Yeah I suspect something like that occurred. some classes got the shaft while others made out like a bandit.
I hope for a point by so they are all even.

Or just take the same 6 numbers and assign as necessary.

Our stats are generally much higher than a typical point buy would allow for.

I think even values is good, but using the same 6 stats assigned to relevant stats I wouldn't want - that would mean Barbarians and Fighters end up with the same strength, and Bards and Rangers end up with the same DEX.

Assuming stats are limited to th odd numbers between 9 and 19, there are only six values to chose from for 12 classes. There will be lots and lots of duplicate values.

That’s true today to.

I’m just saying I don’t favor a proposal like: 17, 15, 13, 11, 11, 11 - assign those 6 numbers to the 6 stats of each character.

I would prefer something like:

Each class has 32 build points, which are used to buy stats at the costs below.

Stats cost:
8 - 0 points
9 - 1
10 - 2
11 - 3
12 - 4
13 - 5
14 - 7
15 - 9
16 - 12
17 - 15

This allows classes to have different stats - especially in their highest stat value, while still being in some kind of balance.

Druid and Wizard have 19s at 4th level, so any point buy system needs to cover up to there. That is unless people want to open the can of worms of lowering existing stats... There will probably be a lot less gnashing of teeth if you set the point buy baseline based of the current high end though.

Also, even stats we're purposely removed from character cards last go round I believe, so you probably don't need to list them out in the point buy system.

Fortunately, the only two lvl4 classes that have 19s have them in mental stats, which are presently the super under-utilized stats. Perfect time to balance now if they are looking to do something to make those stats more relevant in the future.

Yeah, i think before we can adjust stats we need to know the new effects of the mental stats. And after that, we need to asses the relative values of the different stats. We know that even among STR, DEX, & CON, they are not considered equal.