TOPIC: FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Matt Goodman wrote: Thanks! Original post updated. Basically this for any of them:

Rd 1: polymorph and slide attack
Rd 2: un-polymorph and drink potion
Rd 3: polymorph and slide attack

I think looking at the legendary can give us a clue. Since spell-casting is built into the Legendary, I'm leaning towards your scenario being not-allowed.

Otherwise, You could:

Rd 1: polymorph and slide attack
Rd 2: un-polymorph and cast spell
Rd 3: polymorph and slide attack

That ability seems like it's explicitly set aside for the Legendary.

Has it ever been determined whether un-polymorphing takes an action, a free action, or is just instantaneous?

Tokendb.com on one of the potions says " The effect lasts until the end of the room or until ended by the player–whichever comes first." which doesn't really clear that up.

From potion polymorph asp:
The transformation from human(oid) to asp, or vice versa, is instantaneous. However, since drinking a potion requires a Standard Action, unless the character can drink this potion as a Free Action, the character may not attack the same round this potion is consumed.

And from coronet of arch-druid:
The transformation from human(oid) to dire bear, or vice versa, is instantaneous. The druid may attack the same round the transformation occurred, assuming the druid has not used up his/her Standard Action for that round.

So, it doesnt even use up your free action to turn back to human.

Nice! It doesn't seem broken at all, because it costs a first level spell every time you polymorph.

It is still my assumption that you can only use the Belt / Necklace once per room. Otherwise, the only thing that differentiates the relic from the legendary is 1.5 damage on the wheel and the potion bit.

Jeff has definitely stated that spell-casting is linked to the Legendary necklace.

If you were allowed to use each necklace multiple times, the relic would already allow casting spells with the change-change-back method..

I think the Legendary also gives an extra action somehow. I have no issue with being able to use it multiple times in a room, since it costs a first level spell every time you do.

Brad, I agree the shirt is still useful. If I outfit the UR belt, I'll also outfit Shirt of the Fae.

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Matt Goodman wrote: Thanks! Original post updated. Basically this for any of them:

Rd 1: polymorph and slide attack
Rd 2: un-polymorph and drink potion
Rd 3: polymorph and slide attack

I think looking at the legendary can give us a clue. Since spell-casting is built into the Legendary, I'm leaning towards your scenario being not-allowed.

Otherwise, You could:

Rd 1: polymorph and slide attack
Rd 2: un-polymorph and cast spell
Rd 3: polymorph and slide attack

That ability seems like it's explicitly set aside for the Legendary.

Has it ever been determined whether un-polymorphing takes an action, a free action, or is just instantaneous?

Tokendb.com on one of the potions says " The effect lasts until the end of the room or until ended by the player–whichever comes first." which doesn't really clear that up.

From potion polymorph asp:
The transformation from human(oid) to asp, or vice versa, is instantaneous. However, since drinking a potion requires a Standard Action, unless the character can drink this potion as a Free Action, the character may not attack the same round this potion is consumed.

And from coronet of arch-druid:
The transformation from human(oid) to dire bear, or vice versa, is instantaneous. The druid may attack the same round the transformation occurred, assuming the druid has not used up his/her Standard Action for that round.

So, it doesnt even use up your free action to turn back to human.

Nice! It doesn't seem broken at all, because it costs a first level spell every time you polymorph.

It is still my assumption that you can only use the Belt / Necklace once per room. Otherwise, the only thing that differentiates the relic from the legendary is 1.5 damage on the wheel and the potion bit.

Jeff has definitely stated that spell-casting is linked to the Legendary necklace.

If you were allowed to use each necklace multiple times, the relic would already allow casting spells with the change-change-back method..

I think the Legendary also gives an extra action somehow. I have no issue with being able to use it multiple times in a room, since it costs a first level spell every time you do.

Brad, I agree the shirt is still useful. If I outfit the UR belt, I'll also outfit Shirt of the Fae.

True. At the UR level, you'd be burning spells quite quickly. Especially if you were using your regular action in humanoid form to cast another spell.

As soon as you get to the Relic, though...it starts to feel like sleeze to me. You basically get a free Shirt of the Fae at this point by manipulating turning/turning back.

It should be set up so that casting spells either requires transmuting to Legendary or equipping Shirt of the Fae.

So I'm in favor of the once/room because that gives folks more incentive to work towards the Legendary (which I am planning to do).

Thematically, I just think that changing/changing back/changing again doesn't feel right.

I definitely understand your stance, though. We'll have to see what Jeff's intent is.

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Matt Goodman wrote: Thanks! Original post updated. Basically this for any of them:

Rd 1: polymorph and slide attack
Rd 2: un-polymorph and drink potion
Rd 3: polymorph and slide attack

I think looking at the legendary can give us a clue. Since spell-casting is built into the Legendary, I'm leaning towards your scenario being not-allowed.

Otherwise, You could:

Rd 1: polymorph and slide attack
Rd 2: un-polymorph and cast spell
Rd 3: polymorph and slide attack

That ability seems like it's explicitly set aside for the Legendary.

Has it ever been determined whether un-polymorphing takes an action, a free action, or is just instantaneous?

Tokendb.com on one of the potions says " The effect lasts until the end of the room or until ended by the player–whichever comes first." which doesn't really clear that up.

From potion polymorph asp:
The transformation from human(oid) to asp, or vice versa, is instantaneous. However, since drinking a potion requires a Standard Action, unless the character can drink this potion as a Free Action, the character may not attack the same round this potion is consumed.

And from coronet of arch-druid:
The transformation from human(oid) to dire bear, or vice versa, is instantaneous. The druid may attack the same round the transformation occurred, assuming the druid has not used up his/her Standard Action for that round.

So, it doesnt even use up your free action to turn back to human.

Nice! It doesn't seem broken at all, because it costs a first level spell every time you polymorph.

It is still my assumption that you can only use the Belt / Necklace once per room. Otherwise, the only thing that differentiates the relic from the legendary is 1.5 damage on the wheel and the potion bit.

Jeff has definitely stated that spell-casting is linked to the Legendary necklace.

If you were allowed to use each necklace multiple times, the relic would already allow casting spells with the change-change-back method..

I think the Legendary also gives an extra action somehow. I have no issue with being able to use it multiple times in a room, since it costs a first level spell every time you do.

Brad, I agree the shirt is still useful. If I outfit the UR belt, I'll also outfit Shirt of the Fae.

True. At the UR level, you'd be burning spells quite quickly. Especially if you were using your regular action in humanoid form to cast another spell.

As soon as you get to the Relic, though...it starts to feel like sleeze to me. You basically get a free Shirt of the Fae at this point by manipulating turning/turning back.

It should be set up so that casting spells either requires transmuting to Legendary or equipping Shirt of the Fae.

So I'm in favor of the once/room because that gives folks more incentive to work towards the Legendary (which I am planning to do).

Thematically, I just think that changing/changing back/changing again doesn't feel right.

I definitely understand your stance, though. We'll have to see what Jeff's intent is.

If memory serves, in old school AD&D, the druid would heal (without anything else) just by shapeshifting.

Arnold wrote: True. At the UR level, you'd be burning spells quite quickly. Especially if you were using your regular action in humanoid form to cast another spell.

As soon as you get to the Relic, though...it starts to feel like sleeze to me. You basically get a free Shirt of the Fae at this point by manipulating turning/turning back.

It should be set up so that casting spells either requires transmuting to Legendary or equipping Shirt of the Fae.

So I'm in favor of the once/room because that gives folks more incentive to work towards the Legendary (which I am planning to do).

Thematically, I just think that changing/changing back/changing again doesn't feel right.

I definitely understand your stance, though. We'll have to see what Jeff's intent is.

Is this the first year we are seeing tokens that have descriptions that redirect to TokenDb?

This makes adjusting/tuning the effect(s) interesting as token text is fairly static, while the description on TokenDb can be modified.

I am not sure of my opinion regarding the ease at which these token effects could be changed in the future, but it is interesting at the very least.

Philip Goodman wrote:

Arnold wrote: True. At the UR level, you'd be burning spells quite quickly. Especially if you were using your regular action in humanoid form to cast another spell.

As soon as you get to the Relic, though...it starts to feel like sleeze to me. You basically get a free Shirt of the Fae at this point by manipulating turning/turning back.

It should be set up so that casting spells either requires transmuting to Legendary or equipping Shirt of the Fae.

So I'm in favor of the once/room because that gives folks more incentive to work towards the Legendary (which I am planning to do).

Thematically, I just think that changing/changing back/changing again doesn't feel right.

I definitely understand your stance, though. We'll have to see what Jeff's intent is.

Is this the first year we are seeing tokens that have descriptions that redirect to TokenDb?

This makes adjusting/tuning the effect(s) interesting as token text is fairly static, while the description on TokenDb can be modified.

I am not sure of my opinion regarding the ease at which these token effects could be changed in the future, but it is interesting at the very least.

RoSP doesn’t explicitly redirect to TokenDB, but the text is blank so there’s no way other then TokebDB to know what it does.

So long as such references don’t change in a way that affects the party card, it should be okay.

It just occurred to me that this year's class specific relic and legendary tokens can go into the Odin's Medallion, as none of them affect the party card...

Wow, they got better quick.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: It just occurred to me that this year's class specific relic and legendary tokens can go into the Odin's Medallion, as none of them affect the party card...

Wow, they got better quick.

But the Druids would need to slide their token, and the Bard technically has to have the Lute in his/her hands for it to function?

Arnold wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: It just occurred to me that this year's class specific relic and legendary tokens can go into the Odin's Medallion, as none of them affect the party card...

Wow, they got better quick.

But the Druids would need to slide their token, and the Bard technically has to have the Lute in his/her hands for it to function?

I guess my point was that the medallion allows one to equip a token that doesnt affect the party card, which none of these do.

I dont know how it would work with the druid sliding it.

I am confident that the bard and rogue could equip with no issues.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: It just occurred to me that this year's class specific relic and legendary tokens can go into the Odin's Medallion, as none of them affect the party card...

Wow, they got better quick.

But the Druids would need to slide their token, and the Bard technically has to have the Lute in his/her hands for it to function?

I guess my point was that the medallion allows one to equip a token that doesnt affect the party card, which none of these do.

I dont know how it would work with the druid sliding it.

I am confident that the bard and rogue could equip with no issues.

Ohhh, got it. That's HUGE for Druids and Rogues! You can equip a great token at neck and still have access to the legendary effects. Good catch.

IIRC, bards can bring as many instruments they want with them, so less cool for them.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: It just occurred to me that this year's class specific relic and legendary tokens can go into the Odin's Medallion, as none of them affect the party card...

Wow, they got better quick.

I think it was a huge mistake to make any of those permanent. I hope that's not a trend.

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: It just occurred to me that this year's class specific relic and legendary tokens can go into the Odin's Medallion, as none of them affect the party card...

Wow, they got better quick.

I think it was a huge mistake to make any of those permanent. I hope that's not a trend.

From what I understand Odin's Medallion can only contain any token not impacting the party card through Origins. After that, only a handful will be able to continue to use that effect. The rest still get a very beneficial -2 to all damage (not including push of course), but will not be able to put other tokens in it.

Dave wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: It just occurred to me that this year's class specific relic and legendary tokens can go into the Odin's Medallion, as none of them affect the party card...

Wow, they got better quick.

I think it was a huge mistake to make any of those permanent. I hope that's not a trend.

From what I understand Odin's Medallion can only contain any token not impacting the party card through Origins. After that, only a handful will be able to continue to use that effect. The rest still get a very beneficial -2 to all damage (not including push of course), but will not be able to put other tokens in it.

This is correct. A select few people slid well and got a a great benefit! I'm happy for them.

They will always have access to a power we all dont have, but so do artifact owners. I dont begrudge anyone their benefits.