TOPIC: Polymorph Needs a Rework!

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Remember rage is one combat per game. Okay, two if you eat a Cherry. And Barbs don’t get spells

Poly is every combat

Not to mention the Druid can already do Spell Surged Call Lightning for more damage than a Wizard. Since Spell Surge includes + spell damage while Mad Evoker only doubles base damage.

Wait - what? It does???

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Remember rage is one combat per game. Okay, two if you eat a Cherry. And Barbs don’t get spells

Poly is every combat

Not to mention the Druid can already do Spell Surged Call Lightning for more damage than a Wizard. Since Spell Surge includes + spell damage while Mad Evoker only doubles base damage.

Wait - what? It does???

No. Just the base spell and Skill Check.

Brad Mortensen wrote: I guess my point was, why wouldn’t a raging Barb do more melee than a poly Druid?

And I could see it both ways. The poly pot alters you physically: you grow fangs and gills and whatnot. Assuming your STR wouldn’t be affected doesn’t necessarily follow when everything except your mind does...

But then I never understood why Focus affects poly but not any other potions.

So it seems to me like one or the other, STR or focus, should go.

And letting the high-end necklaces obsolete consumables is a road we’ve traveled and are backtracking within a year. Seems like we’re repeating a mistake.

The spells might be a bit much. It you want to change, change, but no items or spells.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Remember rage is one combat per game. Okay, two if you eat a Cherry. And Barbs don’t get spells

Poly is every combat

Not to mention the Druid can already do Spell Surged Call Lightning for more damage than a Wizard. Since Spell Surge includes + spell damage while Mad Evoker only doubles base damage.

Wait - what? It does???

Nevermind. I think there was a clarification/update at some point.

Incognito wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Remember rage is one combat per game. Okay, two if you eat a Cherry. And Barbs don’t get spells

Poly is every combat

Not to mention the Druid can already do Spell Surged Call Lightning for more damage than a Wizard. Since Spell Surge includes + spell damage while Mad Evoker only doubles base damage.

Wait - what? It does???

Nevermind. I think there was a clarification/update at some point.

Phew!

Bhorg wrote: The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of simply making an errata that removes the baton of focus polymorph damage. Leave the healing and spell damage.
This would leave +hit, +spell dmg and + healing, but reduce pure polymorph damage. If that is our goal, then removing the baton from this list would accomplish this in the easiest way.

Of course . . . druid's who have made the Drue's 5+ recently might disagree with the sentiment rather strongly . . .

Ahem, the DRUID CARD has +5 damage while polymorph on it. THAT would be the least disruptive change.

Now i am going to stop reading this thread before i yell at someone. I will pay attention again if jeff actually starts considering errataing polymorph tokens.

kurtreznor wrote: Ahem, the DRUID CARD has +5 damage while polymorph on it. THAT would be the least disruptive change.

As a dirty, shameful member of the 99%, I have to point out that a change that affects everyone is 100 times more disruptive than a change that only affects the 1% that own legendary tokens.

EDIT: Noticed that you were referencing all Batons, not just the legendary. Sorry. Point still stands, though. For low-gear players, that +5 is probably the majority of their +polymorph, not just the cherry on top of a billion buffing tokens.

Allen John wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Ahem, the DRUID CARD has +5 damage while polymorph on it. THAT would be the least disruptive change.

As a dirty, shameful member of the 99%, I have to point out that a change that affects everyone is 100 times more disruptive than a change that only affects the 1% that own legendary tokens.

EDIT: Noticed that you were referencing all Batons, not just the legendary. Sorry. Point still stands, though. For low-gear players, that +5 is probably the majority of their +polymorph, not just the cherry on top of a billion buffing tokens.

I'm not advocating taking anything from anyone.

If a Barbarian is supposed to pack 20% more damage than a polymorph druid, that's fine. Address the issue with the design space surrounding the barbarian's Legendary Necklace.

Take something away from the Poly build now and then when it becomes the barbarian's turn, that gap will either widen, or you'll have people calling out in favor of nerfing Barbarian necklace too.

These are Legendary tokens. They are supposed to be cool and something to strive for. Not to mention extremely powerful.

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Remember rage is one combat per game. Okay, two if you eat a Cherry. And Barbs don’t get spells

Poly is every combat

Not to mention the Druid can already do Spell Surged Call Lightning for more damage than a Wizard. Since Spell Surge includes + spell damage while Mad Evoker only doubles base damage.

I think DMs have only been doubling my base damage for spell surge. I'll have to remind them of that.

It seems odd to try to nerf polymorph when we're still trying to encourage it's use. I think most Druids don't use it, hopefully this UR will encourage more to try it.

The UR seems pretty balanced, it doesn't allow spells while polymorphed.

I'm interested in polymorphing for the variety. What I care about is that it's easy and inexpensive and getting quirky abilities. Admittedly, Relic and Legendary don't rate as cheap, but they are fixed costs. Would be nice to have wizard poly be less potion / spell dependent, but can wait for that.

What I don't care about is damage. A wheel of 0,0,1,2 is not a deterrent to me. Jumping through hoops just to consistently poly and acting immediately ,which to me would include losing good spells, is.

Take from someone who doesn't currently do poly, "build" or no.

Mike Steele wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Remember rage is one combat per game. Okay, two if you eat a Cherry. And Barbs don’t get spells

Poly is every combat

Not to mention the Druid can already do Spell Surged Call Lightning for more damage than a Wizard. Since Spell Surge includes + spell damage while Mad Evoker only doubles base damage.

I think DMs have only been doubling my base damage for spell surge. I'll have to remind them of that.

That is not correct.