TOPIC: 2019 Ultra Rare Token Images !!

Graven wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Graven wrote:

MasterED wrote:

The Falcon wrote: I don't like the to be Ring of Foolish heroism but that's due to a plethora of regular rings of heroism still out there. I do dig the name though.

+1

-1 I had people asking for Ring of Heroism at Gen Con. Each vendor sold everything they brought and the price continued to climb. Now I am not advocating that price is the factor here what I am saying is there is demand out there and the supply of RoH is dwindling (and you can't make any more).

Ed

Wow. I can see that as TD has opened up to more cons, and thus a larger number of players. I wonder if RoH should be added back as a transmute this year, updated to use similar tokens from the past couple years to build it?

I do like the name "Ring of Foolish Heroism"

Jeff is on record as saying once a relic recipie is closed, it is closed.
There is nothing to stop a functional reprint, or a different slot.

I am now seriously considering off loading some of the rings I carry with me to let PUGs all play at level 5.

What Jeff said was ""I have no plans to do a complete reprint of any Relic, but we might eventually get around to making something that is sort of like an old one...so instead of a Ring that is +4 to saves, it might be +2 saves and +6 hit points. Thanks for your input on all this. "

It seems like he didn't completely close the door on reprinting Relics. And he definitely left the door open to doing something like an Ioun Stone of Heroism, which would have the same effect in a different slot.

I do wonder what effect the new Eldritch rules (everyone at +1 level with 2 items), and the Kilt being printed, will have on the supply of Rings of Heroism. I know several people in my party were using Rings or Charms of Heroism, and I'll be able to get all 10 to 5th Level easily with the Eldritch Bonus this year, freeing up several Rings and a Charm of Heroism for my token store.

Having more on the market is not the same thing as having a path to build a +1 lvl item. Building can be cheaper and more fun for some players than buying. Some people may not be comfortable jumping into the secondary market. Knowing you have something you can work toward is good for the game.

I'd like it if the RoH or variants were a relic every three years, and took those 3 years worth of completions tokens and monster bits. This year I'd call it "Oden's Ring of Heroism". I'd have it right beside the lucky bead this year. I have a RoH so the bead is more interesting to me, but if I didn't I be more interested in a RoH.

Personally I like the idea that you have to work to level up (invest a couple years), vs getting a lvl up in a pack or as a PYP. I can see the UR ring becoming a transmute for a variant RoH but I prefer how Jeff did the RoH.

Really like that idea, something that is available or a visible/logical pathway vs the thought of they exist on the secondary market go find them mentality.

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Incognito wrote: Hat of the Hellway is problematic AC creep for Wizards and Monks. They shouldn't be getting a +2 AC headgear out of nowhere.

I was wondering where you where through all of this.

And while you are not wrong, as a Monk main with Wizard as my primary backup, I can tell you I would not give up my current head slot in either class (Crown of Might and Circlet of Elemental Mastery, respectively) for this item. Though my wizard class is considering upgrading to Crown of Expertise.

I was just thinking the same thing....there are too many better choices in the head slot to really make this a good token outside of its use as an ingredient for the blessed redoubt helm.

Even if many in those classes are unlikely to use them, I still think we shouldn't be adding Monk, Wizards, or Bard to a +2 AC head slot token when they've never had one in the past.

It hasn't been done before is not a valid argument.

Actually it is.

jedibcg wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Incognito wrote: Hat of the Hellway is problematic AC creep for Wizards and Monks. They shouldn't be getting a +2 AC headgear out of nowhere.

I was wondering where you where through all of this.

And while you are not wrong, as a Monk main with Wizard as my primary backup, I can tell you I would not give up my current head slot in either class (Crown of Might and Circlet of Elemental Mastery, respectively) for this item. Though my wizard class is considering upgrading to Crown of Expertise.

I was just thinking the same thing....there are too many better choices in the head slot to really make this a good token outside of its use as an ingredient for the blessed redoubt helm.

Even if many in those classes are unlikely to use them, I still think we shouldn't be adding Monk, Wizards, or Bard to a +2 AC head slot token when they've never had one in the past.

It hasn't been done before is not a valid argument.

Actually it is.

Then we better get rid of the UR shirt, because we've never had a Shirt give Psychic power or an item give extra uses for psychic power. That's two things that haven't been done before.

Mike Steele wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Incognito wrote: Hat of the Hellway is problematic AC creep for Wizards and Monks. They shouldn't be getting a +2 AC headgear out of nowhere.

I was wondering where you where through all of this.

And while you are not wrong, as a Monk main with Wizard as my primary backup, I can tell you I would not give up my current head slot in either class (Crown of Might and Circlet of Elemental Mastery, respectively) for this item. Though my wizard class is considering upgrading to Crown of Expertise.

I was just thinking the same thing....there are too many better choices in the head slot to really make this a good token outside of its use as an ingredient for the blessed redoubt helm.

Even if many in those classes are unlikely to use them, I still think we shouldn't be adding Monk, Wizards, or Bard to a +2 AC head slot token when they've never had one in the past.

Especially when the argument that a +2 AC UR Head item exists is used to justify a +3 or +4 AC Relic Head item or a +5 or +6 AC Legendary.

I remember when it was bad enough when Rangers and Barbarians got access to +2 AC helms. Even right now the best Ranger AC helm is +2 AC. Best Bard AC helm is +1 AC.

So not only is this AC creep (this also helps Rogues, who previously didn't have + AC for head) but it further blurs the lines and stats between classes.

Xavon wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Incognito wrote: Hat of the Hellway is problematic AC creep for Wizards and Monks. They shouldn't be getting a +2 AC headgear out of nowhere.

I was wondering where you where through all of this.

And while you are not wrong, as a Monk main with Wizard as my primary backup, I can tell you I would not give up my current head slot in either class (Crown of Might and Circlet of Elemental Mastery, respectively) for this item. Though my wizard class is considering upgrading to Crown of Expertise.

I was just thinking the same thing....there are too many better choices in the head slot to really make this a good token outside of its use as an ingredient for the blessed redoubt helm.

Even if many in those classes are unlikely to use them, I still think we shouldn't be adding Monk, Wizards, or Bard to a +2 AC head slot token when they've never had one in the past.

It hasn't been done before is not a valid argument.

Actually it is.

Then we better get rid of the UR shirt, because we've never had a Shirt give Psychic power or an item give extra uses for psychic power. That's two things that haven't been done before.

You'll obviously be ok with a Fighter-only token that gives them the ability to cast 1st level spells then too, right?

Fiddy wrote:

Xavon wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Incognito wrote: Hat of the Hellway is problematic AC creep for Wizards and Monks. They shouldn't be getting a +2 AC headgear out of nowhere.

I was wondering where you where through all of this.

And while you are not wrong, as a Monk main with Wizard as my primary backup, I can tell you I would not give up my current head slot in either class (Crown of Might and Circlet of Elemental Mastery, respectively) for this item. Though my wizard class is considering upgrading to Crown of Expertise.

I was just thinking the same thing....there are too many better choices in the head slot to really make this a good token outside of its use as an ingredient for the blessed redoubt helm.

Even if many in those classes are unlikely to use them, I still think we shouldn't be adding Monk, Wizards, or Bard to a +2 AC head slot token when they've never had one in the past.

It hasn't been done before is not a valid argument.

Actually it is.

Then we better get rid of the UR shirt, because we've never had a Shirt give Psychic power or an item give extra uses for psychic power. That's two things that haven't been done before.

You'll obviously be ok with a Fighter-only token that gives them the ability to cast 1st level spells then too, right?

No, because it would be potentially overpowered, and infringe on the other classes. Not because it hasn't been done before.

If the Hat is unbalanced for those classes (debatable), then that is a reason. Because it hasn't been done before is not.

Xavon wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Xavon wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Incognito wrote: Hat of the Hellway is problematic AC creep for Wizards and Monks. They shouldn't be getting a +2 AC headgear out of nowhere.

I was wondering where you where through all of this.

And while you are not wrong, as a Monk main with Wizard as my primary backup, I can tell you I would not give up my current head slot in either class (Crown of Might and Circlet of Elemental Mastery, respectively) for this item. Though my wizard class is considering upgrading to Crown of Expertise.

I was just thinking the same thing....there are too many better choices in the head slot to really make this a good token outside of its use as an ingredient for the blessed redoubt helm.

Even if many in those classes are unlikely to use them, I still think we shouldn't be adding Monk, Wizards, or Bard to a +2 AC head slot token when they've never had one in the past.

It hasn't been done before is not a valid argument.

Actually it is.

Then we better get rid of the UR shirt, because we've never had a Shirt give Psychic power or an item give extra uses for psychic power. That's two things that haven't been done before.

You'll obviously be ok with a Fighter-only token that gives them the ability to cast 1st level spells then too, right?

No, because it would be potentially overpowered, and infringe on the other classes. Not because it hasn't been done before.

If the Hat is unbalanced for those classes (debatable), then that is a reason. Because it hasn't been done before is not.

it is a reason. just because you don’t like it or disagree with it does not make it a non reason.

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Incognito wrote: Hat of the Hellway is problematic AC creep for Wizards and Monks. They shouldn't be getting a +2 AC headgear out of nowhere.

I was wondering where you where through all of this.

And while you are not wrong, as a Monk main with Wizard as my primary backup, I can tell you I would not give up my current head slot in either class (Crown of Might and Circlet of Elemental Mastery, respectively) for this item. Though my wizard class is considering upgrading to Crown of Expertise.

I was just thinking the same thing....there are too many better choices in the head slot to really make this a good token outside of its use as an ingredient for the blessed redoubt helm.

Even if many in those classes are unlikely to use them, I still think we shouldn't be adding Monk, Wizards, or Bard to a +2 AC head slot token when they've never had one in the past.

Especially when the argument that a +2 AC UR Head item exists is used to justify a +3 or +4 AC Relic Head item or a +5 or +6 AC Legendary.

I remember when it was bad enough when Rangers and Barbarians got access to +2 AC helms. Even right now the best Ranger AC helm is +2 AC. Best Bard AC helm is +1 AC.

So not only is this AC creep (this also helps Rogues, who previously didn't have + AC for head) but it further blurs the lines and stats between classes.

Exactly! From past history, we know that once this happens once for a class, it becomes the norm. It erodes the differentiation between the classes if suddenly everyone has access to +2 AC Helms. Or +2 Rare AC Cloaks.

Xavon wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Xavon wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Incognito wrote: Hat of the Hellway is problematic AC creep for Wizards and Monks. They shouldn't be getting a +2 AC headgear out of nowhere.

I was wondering where you where through all of this.

And while you are not wrong, as a Monk main with Wizard as my primary backup, I can tell you I would not give up my current head slot in either class (Crown of Might and Circlet of Elemental Mastery, respectively) for this item. Though my wizard class is considering upgrading to Crown of Expertise.

I was just thinking the same thing....there are too many better choices in the head slot to really make this a good token outside of its use as an ingredient for the blessed redoubt helm.

Even if many in those classes are unlikely to use them, I still think we shouldn't be adding Monk, Wizards, or Bard to a +2 AC head slot token when they've never had one in the past.

It hasn't been done before is not a valid argument.

Actually it is.

Then we better get rid of the UR shirt, because we've never had a Shirt give Psychic power or an item give extra uses for psychic power. That's two things that haven't been done before.

You'll obviously be ok with a Fighter-only token that gives them the ability to cast 1st level spells then too, right?

No, because it would be potentially overpowered, and infringe on the other classes. Not because it hasn't been done before.

If the Hat is unbalanced for those classes (debatable), then that is a reason. Because it hasn't been done before is not.

Exactly, the Hat infringes on classes that have access to +2 AC helms.

I feel my shadowskin cloak is effectively going to great loom or token chipper shredder can we please get at least the +2 saves back? When downgrading to a rare feels better than the replacement UR something isn't right.

On the tome: a dumb question from someone who shouldn't play wizard again (perpetual reminder, don't cast fireball when rest of party is in a lake). Do wizards use anything in off hand?

Would making this an off hand item work and help combat the feel of slotless power creep? By making it off hand least it takes a existing slot and fits in with stuff like the brawlers horn/mug far as damage boosting?

Matt wrote: On the tome: a dumb question from someone who shouldn't play wizard again (perpetual reminder, don't cast fireball when rest of party is in a lake). Do wizards use anything in off hand?

Our Focus weapon is a 2H staff, so no.

Matt wrote: I feel my shadowskin cloak is effectively going to great loom or token chipper shredder can we please get at least the +2 saves back? When downgrading to a rare feels better than the replacement UR something isn't right.

Matt has a great point. We've basically gone from something that was very powerful to something that doesn't even hold it's weight taking-up a slot. The double nerfing is just too much. How about allowing the damage absorption TWICE per game?