TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images!

Dougout wrote: This Thread doesn't seem to be Pinned when I view it on my browsers...

Also, I'm cross-posting this idea from the UR thread...

A Few People Including myself have offered up the idea of evening out the stat +/-points on the Dungeaonbane to +2 STR / +2 DEX / +2CON or some variation. I Also agree that the Barrelbane should net +2 stat pts. with -2 CON/DEX instead of the current -3.A lot of people are mad about losing +points.

Can I suggest an added level of Flexibility and wackiness if we're keeping the idea of choosing stats to boost... Instead of +5 to one stat of your choice... Allow the kilt to be +6 Point Pool to be used as you see fit among STR/DEX/CON So... if you wanted +6 STR, you can have it, if you want +2 to all 3 you can have that... if you want +3Con, +2Dex, +1Str, you can do that... etc...

While I like that idea as a player, I dislike it strongly as a coach. And I imagine the character builder programmers have an opinion on the subject as well.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Boilerplate wrote: For those who think the kilt would be too good at +6, can you explain why? Is it because of you are primarily concerned about inflated combat stats, AC, saves, or HP?

My theory is that the +5 camp consists of folks who worry most about impact on combat stats. Admittedly, +6 to str and dex (which impact combat stats) seems strong. And for these folks, the drop below 6 only costs a single point of hit/damage. Maybe not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

My theory is that the +6 camp consists of folks who worry most about HP and don’t really care at all about hit, damage, AC, or saves. For these folks, the drop below 6 feels worse because it is 5 HP. Perhaps worth fighting over.

If I am right, then couldn’t we make everyone happy with a comprise kilt with +4 (or +5) to one stat and +5 HP? That way we can avoid inflating combat stats, AC, and saves while still allowing Tavernbane wearers to maintain status quo HP.

For me it’s because:

1. Str is the most important stat for dealing damage in the game.

2. The absolute best STR item ever printed is a legendary at +7 in the waist slot, which has long been considered one of the more powerful slots.

3. The kilt as is at 5 is strictly better than 5 str, as it:
A. Nets you a level without consuming a slot of you have 1 other eldritch piece.
B. Nets you +1 to melee, ranged, and spell damage if you have at least 1 other eldritch piece.
C. Nets you +2 to healing if you have at least 1 other eldritch piece (+4 if you have exactly 1)
D. You can change it to dex or con if you’d ever like to!


Beyond that, I’m concerned about the fast power creep this gives, and the disproportionate benefit it gives to melee monks and rangers who already are whooping the other melee classes. Rangers and Monks are going to push further ahead the more and more stackable STR that gets made.


It gives all melee classes +2 or 3 to hit, and realistically +3 or 4 to damage (from thebset bonus) if not now then in 2 years when the Cavadar transmute is done.


So, the whole concern is around STR for me.

I’d be perfectly fine if it were +4 str or +6 dex or +6 con - to me that’s not too powerful.

It’s the +4, now 5, and maybe soon to be 6 STR that I object to because it is a getting to parity with a legendary in a stronger slot.

If we’re going to throw +3/+3 in melee onto this sucker, it’s probably better than the boots of the four winds for the majority of players who build towards melee.

Thanks for this, Matthew. Thoughtful as usual. I had a hunch that it was the strength piece that was the biggest worry for folks. I’d be okay with your +4 str or +4 dex or +6 con idea.

This thread should be renamed 50 shades of Dungeonbane Kilt LOL. It's +5 to stat of choice and the revised Eldritch benefits have been lowered...for three UR's that seems fair.

The Sneaky Necklace is what really needs some work.
At the end of the day all you get for everything traded in and given up is one extra BS per combat and a lowered crit range. (Thor's hammer gives you that already with 19-20.) The New Hood gives you +1 AC and no 1 round delay, you are not saving a slot or consolidating. So no benefit there.

It really needs the Ranged Backstab or the Guided Strike powers back to make it worthwhile. Lose the 18-20 Crit range in exchange. for one of these at least. My choice would be the Guided Strike and make that one of the ingredients needed.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Templar wrote: I’m a fan of it being a ‘add +5 to any stat at beginning of adventure’ for the eldritch variant so it can be flexible in the future with other builds when int/wis becomes more important, but I’m okay with it as is.

Just stealing a small part of your post and saying PLEASE YES to this modification.ESPECIALLY if there are plans to make other stats useful in future updates let's open this up to all stats.

Yeah +1 to this - it would be a big misfire in my opinion to lock this to STR/DEX/CON if the other stats are about to become important - unless we're about to enter into another 3 year eldritch cycle that will put a WIS/INT/CHA booster into a new slot that isn't contested at the time the announcement is made.

Maybe the next 3-4 UR transmute will be a WIS/INT/CHA based token.

Dougout wrote: This Thread doesn't seem to be Pinned when I view it on my browsers...

Also, I'm cross-posting this idea from the UR thread...

A Few People Including myself have offered up the idea of evening out the stat +/-points on the Dungeaonbane to +2 STR / +2 DEX / +2CON or some variation. I Also agree that the Barrelbane should net +2 stat pts. with -2 CON/DEX instead of the current -3.A lot of people are mad about losing +points.

Can I suggest an added level of Flexibility and wackiness if we're keeping the idea of choosing stats to boost... Instead of +5 to one stat of your choice... Allow the kilt to be +6 Point Pool to be used as you see fit among STR/DEX/CON So... if you wanted +6 STR, you can have it, if you want +2 to all 3 you can have that... if you want +3Con, +2Dex, +1Str, you can do that... etc...

EDIT... Allow All Stat Points as previously suggested.

+2/+2/+2 would cause a riot, and a six-point pool will send the app builders running away screaming

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: This thread should be renamed 50 shades of Dungeonbane Kilt LOL. It's +5 to stat of choice and the revised Eldritch benefits have been lowered...for three UR's that seems fair.

The Sneaky Necklace is what really needs some work.
At the end of the day all you get for everything traded in and given up is one extra BS per combat and a lowered crit range. (Thor's hammer gives you that already with 19-20.) The New Hood gives you +1 AC and no 1 round delay, your not saving a slot or consolidating. So no benefit there.

It really needs the Ranged Backstab or the Guided Strike powers back to make it worthwhile. Lose the 18-20 Crit range in exchange. for one of these at least. My choice would be the Guided Strike and make that one of the ingredients needed.

Sneak attacking the same monster a 2nd time is a new ability right?

I was assuming this item eliminated all crit/sneak immunity while you are sneaking - so I though it basically included bracers of guided strike (I mean, I guess on round 3 it gains crit immunity again...)

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Templar wrote: I’m a fan of it being a ‘add +5 to any stat at beginning of adventure’ for the eldritch variant so it can be flexible in the future with other builds when int/wis becomes more important, but I’m okay with it as is.

Just stealing a small part of your post and saying PLEASE YES to this modification.ESPECIALLY if there are plans to make other stats useful in future updates let's open this up to all stats.

Yeah +1 to this - it would be a big misfire in my opinion to lock this to STR/DEX/CON if the other stats are about to become important - unless we're about to enter into another 3 year eldritch cycle that will put a WIS/INT/CHA booster into a new slot that isn't contested at the time the announcement is made.

Maybe the next 3-4 UR transmute will be a WIS/INT/CHA based token.

Seems like a waste of UR options for 3 more years (plus yet another addition to the eldritch pile) to make another set just to include the secondary stats Would be much simpler to make this +5 to ANY stat (choose at coaching) and leave it at that.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Templar wrote: I’m a fan of it being a ‘add +5 to any stat at beginning of adventure’ for the eldritch variant so it can be flexible in the future with other builds when int/wis becomes more important, but I’m okay with it as is.

Just stealing a small part of your post and saying PLEASE YES to this modification.ESPECIALLY if there are plans to make other stats useful in future updates let's open this up to all stats.

If I were TPTB, I would be extremely hesitant to lock myself into any high level stat increasers for stats before 100% locking in exactly how they will work mechanically.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: This thread should be renamed 50 shades of Dungeonbane Kilt LOL. It's +5 to stat of choice and the revised Eldritch benefits have been lowered...for three UR's that seems fair.

The Sneaky Necklace is what really needs some work.
At the end of the day all you get for everything traded in and given up is one extra BS per combat and a lowered crit range. (Thor's hammer gives you that already with 19-20.) The New Hood gives you +1 AC and no 1 round delay, your not saving a slot or consolidating. So no benefit there.

It really needs the Ranged Backstab or the Guided Strike powers back to make it worthwhile. Lose the 18-20 Crit range in exchange. for one of these at least. My choice would be the Guided Strike and make that one of the ingredients needed.

Sneak attacking the same monster a 2nd time is a new ability right?

I was assuming this item eliminated all crit/sneak immunity while you are sneaking - so I though it basically included bracers of guided strike (I mean, I guess on round 3 it gains crit immunity again...)

Yes, 2nd time is new.

It used to remove the Crit immunity but that power and the ranged Backstab power was removed in Rd2. The lowered Crit Range 18-20 was added in. I really think the crit immunity needs to come back in to make this item worthwhile and Legendary.

Thanks for acknowledging this issue as its all Kilt talk lol

Allen John wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Templar wrote: I’m a fan of it being a ‘add +5 to any stat at beginning of adventure’ for the eldritch variant so it can be flexible in the future with other builds when int/wis becomes more important, but I’m okay with it as is.

Just stealing a small part of your post and saying PLEASE YES to this modification.ESPECIALLY if there are plans to make other stats useful in future updates let's open this up to all stats.

If I were TPTB, I would be worried about locking myself into any high level stat increasers for stats before 100% locking in exactly how they will work mechanically.

The expectation of mostt players is going to be that all secondary stats will operate the same way as all current ones do.

2 INT = +1 spell damage
2 WIS = +1 spell damage or healing
2 CHA = +1 spell damage or healing

Given that's exactly how STR and DEX work now, and that's exactly how the stats work in the game this is not at all based on it's what I expect we will see happen

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Templar wrote: I’m a fan of it being a ‘add +5 to any stat at beginning of adventure’ for the eldritch variant so it can be flexible in the future with other builds when int/wis becomes more important, but I’m okay with it as is.

Just stealing a small part of your post and saying PLEASE YES to this modification.ESPECIALLY if there are plans to make other stats useful in future updates let's open this up to all stats.

Yeah +1 to this - it would be a big misfire in my opinion to lock this to STR/DEX/CON if the other stats are about to become important - unless we're about to enter into another 3 year eldritch cycle that will put a WIS/INT/CHA booster into a new slot that isn't contested at the time the announcement is made.

Maybe the next 3-4 UR transmute will be a WIS/INT/CHA based token.

Seems like a waste of UR options for 3 more years (plus yet another addition to the eldritch pile) to make another set just to include the secondary stats Would be much simpler to make this +5 to ANY stat (choose at coaching) and leave it at that.

Except that if you do that, you have to immediately handle scaling to Clerics with +13 Wis, Wizards with +14 Int, and Bards with +14 Charisma.

That or you have to nerf more existing tokens. Maybe we should hold off on adding more to those stats until there's been more decided about how they will be used.

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: This thread should be renamed 50 shades of Dungeonbane Kilt LOL. It's +5 to stat of choice and the revised Eldritch benefits have been lowered...for three UR's that seems fair.

The Sneaky Necklace is what really needs some work.
At the end of the day all you get for everything traded in and given up is one extra BS per combat and a lowered crit range. (Thor's hammer gives you that already with 19-20.) The New Hood gives you +1 AC and no 1 round delay, your not saving a slot or consolidating. So no benefit there.

It really needs the Ranged Backstab or the Guided Strike powers back to make it worthwhile. Lose the 18-20 Crit range in exchange. for one of these at least. My choice would be the Guided Strike and make that one of the ingredients needed.

Sneak attacking the same monster a 2nd time is a new ability right?

I was assuming this item eliminated all crit/sneak immunity while you are sneaking - so I though it basically included bracers of guided strike (I mean, I guess on round 3 it gains crit immunity again...)

Yes, 2nd time is new.

It used to remove the Crit immunity but that power and the ranged Backstab power was removed in Rd2. The lowered Crit Range 18-20 was added in. I really think the crit immunity needs to come back this item to make it worthwhile and Legendary.

Thanks for acknowledging something this as its all Kilt talk lol

If it keeps the immunity removal and 19-20 crit is that worth the legendary slot? Would 18-20 and the immunity be worth it?

I assume the immunity is the main thing Rogues want as a secondary ability?