TOPIC: 2019 Eldritch Kilt Suggestions and Discussion

Ahh. Fair enough. I was just commenting that objectively the 2-pc feels way more impactful than 3 piece, but you're right that many people probably purchased, motivated by the 2 piece bonus, and that should be taken into account.

Regardless, I feel 4-pc shouldn't be game breaking, unless the expectation is for eldritch to be the tokens expected to play at the Epic level.

Lordoftherealm wrote: +3 to Str/Dex/Con
Freedom of Movement
Slow fall any distance
+5 hp

I would be happy with this.

Personally I’ll be disappointed with any kilt that doesn’t give +4 on the majority of stats or better.
A +3 all stats and I find myself debating whether to keep the old kilts and min max for overall better builds.

Right now I use tavernbane for some builds but given that made a +5 hammer the dex of fatherbane is often critical.

Wayne Rhodes wrote: Personally I’ll be disappointed with any kilt that doesn’t give +4 on the majority of stats or better.
A +3 all stats and I find myself debating whether to keep the old kilts and min max for overall better builds.

Right now I use tavernbane for some builds but given that made a +5 hammer the dex of fatherbane is often critical.

Token debates for a slot are usually a good thing.

Ed

As someone who is currently wearing Pantaloons of the Deeperdark (+3 HP and Free Movement), I'd be pretty darn happy with +4 to STR/DEX/CON and Free Movement. Reduced damage from a fall or another benefit (+2 to all damage?) would be nice too, but not necessary.

As discussed in the prior thread linked above, I worry about the eldritch kilt being a downgrade for players who have come to rely on the +6 for a primary stat. That +6 has become important enough to builds to cause folks to equip despite some of the largest negatives of any tokens in the game. For me, my MEC wizard really needs the 15 hp from Tavernbane, so it would stink to get less with the eldritch. If +6 for Con, Dex, and Str is too OP, I really, really like the “modular” idea suggested in the prior thread. (Although perhaps “modular” isn’t the right term since I think people mean for transmuters to permanently fix the stats of their eldritch kilt at the time of transmutation, not with each run.) I, for one, would love an eldritch version of Tavernbane that keeps the +6 Con, but without the negative Dex.

MasterED wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: Personally I’ll be disappointed with any kilt that doesn’t give +4 on the majority of stats or better.
A +3 all stats and I find myself debating whether to keep the old kilts and min max for overall better builds.

Right now I use tavernbane for some builds but given that made a +5 hammer the dex of fatherbane is often critical.

Token debates for a slot are usually a good thing.

Ed

Well put. It will not change my disappointment but sometimes it’s better to disappoint people than crazy high power creep.

So what will the final UR have? If it follows the pattern it will be something like +6 STR -4 CON (guessing here). Then if the Eldritch one is +4/+4/+4 you will have the same issue. Some melee sliders will want to keep the +6 STR -4 CON to max on damage. Some wizards will want to keep the +6 CON -4 DEX one to max HP.

The options then for the Eldritch Kilt are...
1. Make it 6/6/6. Issue: Too strong.
2. Multiple versions of the token where one stat is +6 and the others are a lesser amount. Issue: Adds complexity in the transmuting process; people who play multiple builds annoyed that they have to craft multiple.
3. Make it 4/4/4 or 3/3/3. Issue: Some people who want to min/max might not transmute it.

I love the idea from the other thread of the modular Kilt. So I would propose that there would be only one Eldritch Kilt to craft. It would have the text "Choose one: +6 STR, +6 DEX, or +6 CON". And sure, tack on Free Movement, Free Fall, whatever, plus the set bonus. I think everyone would want to craft that.

The only concern then is for coaching. In the character builders you'd just split it into 3 virtual tokens. "Kilt of Whatever (STR)", "Kilt of Whatever (DEX)", "Kilt of Whatever (CON)". Then it's super easy for the player to choose in the builder which option they want. For players who have the coach add their stats... is anyone really plopping down Eldritch tokens on the equipping mat for the coaches to add? I would hope not! If they do, I guess the coach would have to ask which option they want, but I highly doubt that would be happening often enough to be a problem.

I’ve seen a lot of suggestions but not +5/5/5
It’s close enough to the +6 original tokens so as a MEC wizard I would give up the extra +1 con for the benefit of the added bonus. I think most folks would also be interested in transmuting.

Bob Chasan wrote: I’ve seen a lot of suggestions but not +5/5/5
It’s close enough to the +6 original tokens so as a MEC wizard I would give up the extra +1 con for the benefit of the added bonus. I think most folks would also be interested in transmuting.

While spotless, the Ro7P gives +1 HP, Saves, Str, Dex and Con.

I get that we let the cat out of the bag with +6/-4, +6/-2,-2

5 or 6 seems really, really good without a drawback. Even for an eldritch item.

Jeff321 wrote: So what will the final UR have? If it follows the pattern it will be something like +6 STR -4 CON (guessing here). Then if the Eldritch one is +4/+4/+4 you will have the same issue. Some melee sliders will want to keep the +6 STR -4 CON to max on damage. Some wizards will want to keep the +6 CON -4 DEX one to max HP.

The options then for the Eldritch Kilt are...
1. Make it 6/6/6. Issue: Too strong.
2. Multiple versions of the token where one stat is +6 and the others are a lesser amount. Issue: Adds complexity in the transmuting process; people who play multiple builds annoyed that they have to craft multiple.
3. Make it 4/4/4 or 3/3/3. Issue: Some people who want to min/max might not transmute it.

I love the idea from the other thread of the modular Kilt. So I would propose that there would be only one Eldritch Kilt to craft. It would have the text "Choose one: +6 STR, +6 DEX, or +6 CON". And sure, tack on Free Movement, Free Fall, whatever, plus the set bonus. I think everyone would want to craft that.

The only concern then is for coaching. In the character builders you'd just split it into 3 virtual tokens. "Kilt of Whatever (STR)", "Kilt of Whatever (DEX)", "Kilt of Whatever (CON)". Then it's super easy for the player to choose in the builder which option they want. For players who have the coach add their stats... is anyone really plopping down Eldritch tokens on the equipping mat for the coaches to add? I would hope not! If they do, I guess the coach would have to ask which option they want, but I highly doubt that would be happening often enough to be a problem.

Supreme Kilt of Versatility?

Personally, i would prefer the +3 all stat and small bonus OR +4 all stats. I would totally make the choose your +6, but that means all the transmute does is remove the negative of the UR of your choice; not really a combination or bonus added.

Maybe the choose your own could be +3 STR, DEX, CON & +3 addtl STR, DEX or CON. No other bonus.

Also, the third kilt is in an awkward spot. You either have to break the pattern of +6 or break the balance of total math. To keep the math even across the three, it needs to be
+4 STR, -2 CON
but if you want +6 STR to match the other bonuses you need -4 total between DEX and CON.
I really think the next kilt needs to stay at +4 STR, -2 CON.

Jeff321 wrote: Make it 4/4/4 or 3/3/3. Issue: Some people who want to min/max might not transmute it.

Min/Max-er's will likely not transmute because +6 is 3rd the best in the game (Legendary Robe, Girdle).

Ed