TOPIC: 2019 Eldritch Kilt Suggestions and Discussion

This thread is to discuss and propose ideas for the 2019 Eldritch Kilt Token. Other 2019 Transmuted Tokens will have their own thread.

There is a very good discussion of this already in another thread.

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=5&id=248004

I should have thought to put it in here.

Should have some extra bonus if you are actually wearing a kilt.

Based on the two so far, I'm guessing it will be something like +2 to all attributes.

Here's the problem I have. Eldritch items to date have been BiS or close to it. Except for wizards who want to focus on nothing but damage, the Elemental Ring is in the build of almost everyone who owns one. The boots can be argued to be BiS for almost every class. And since the rod is slotless, why wouldn't you use it?

If the kilt is nothing but +2 to each attribute, then it's useful at low and mid-level builds but is BiS to almost no one. If you need HP, you'll choose Tavernbane over it every time. If you have a ranged attack build, you'll almost always choose Fatherbane. Assuming the next kilt focuses on strength, then melee fighters would choose that over the eldritch version in most cases. It will become a case of the individual pieces being more valuable than the sum of the parts.

But then we are looking at a 3 year eldritch token versus the 4 year ring, 4 year boots and 7 year rod. Although, I would say each of those have power levels at least equal to legendary items or more. Their value alone speaks to that.

So what do we do with the kilt? I think at minimum you have to look at +3 to all attributes and free movement. Even then it won't be BiS to many, but it may start to become attractive to balanced builds. With the odd base level attribute numbers, it will bump up many bonuses by +2. And while i would love for it to maintain the +6 increase to each attribute, that does seem a bit overpowered. Anything that powerful would need a whole lot more added to the recipe and likely come with some negative aspect.

Dave wrote: Here's the problem I have. Eldritch items to date have been BiS or close to it. Except for wizards who want to focus on nothing but damage, the Elemental Ring is in the build of almost everyone who owns one. The boots can be argued to be BiS for almost every class. And since the rod is slotless, why wouldn't you use it?

If the kilt is nothing but +2 to each attribute, then it's useful at low and mid-level builds but is BiS to almost no one. If you need HP, you'll choose Tavernbane over it every time. If you have a ranged attack build, you'll almost always choose Fatherbane. Assuming the next kilt focuses on strength, then melee fighters would choose that over the eldritch version in most cases. It will become a case of the individual pieces being more valuable than the sum of the parts.

But then we are looking at a 3 year eldritch token versus the 4 year ring, 4 year boots and 7 year rod. Although, I would say each of those have power levels at least equal to legendary items or more. Their value alone speaks to that.

So what do we do with the kilt? I think at minimum you have to look at +3 to all attributes and free movement. Even then it won't be BiS to many, but it may start to become attractive to balanced builds. With the odd base level attribute numbers, it will bump up many bonuses by +2. And while i would love for it to maintain the +6 increase to each attribute, that does seem a bit overpowered. Anything that powerful would need a whole lot more added to the recipe and likely come with some negative aspect.

I would argue that the Eldritch ring, while good, is not necessarily BiS. Also, the Kilt will count towards the set bonus, so it has that.

Also, +2 to all attributes include WIS (for Will Saves) and CHA (for a second figurine potentially).

But I could definitely get behind +3 to all and free action.

Dave wrote: +3 to all attributes and free movement.

Did you just mean +3 to Str/Dex/Con, or to all 6 attributes? I think +3 to all attributes could be interesting.

I will agree +6 to stats is overpowered. +2 or +3 to the stats plus freedom of movement (gotta love kilts for the freedom!) sounds like a good thing for the kilt. I know that some people will use the individual kilts as they don't mind the negatives but what will make the kilt shine is two things.

1. It could free up a ring slot for those using a 3 piece set (all but ranger and druid) or give someone who might not have the rod the ability to get +1 level. So it gives options to those with some or all eldritch items.
2. The 4 piece bonus.... Who knows what it will be, but it could be worth the loss of the CON for mages, STR for melee, etc.

What about something like

+5 Str/Dex/Con, does not effect saves

So no +3 fort/reflex and none even stat blocks, but if you built for it you could still get the same HP levels as from tavern bane etc etc . Plus it would fit on the token and be easier to adjudicate in coaching.

Picc wrote: What about something like

+5 Str/Dex/Con, does not effect saves

So no +3 fort/reflex and none even stat blocks, but if you built for it you could still get the same HP levels as from tavern bane etc etc . Plus it would fit on the token and be easier to adjudicate in coaching.

I suspect that will lead to large headaches for the people that update the character builders.

Fiddy wrote:

Picc wrote: What about something like

+5 Str/Dex/Con, does not effect saves

So no +3 fort/reflex and none even stat blocks, but if you built for it you could still get the same HP levels as from tavern bane etc etc . Plus it would fit on the token and be easier to adjudicate in coaching.

I suspect that will lead to large headaches for the people that update the character builders.

As I am not one of those people I'm not sure, but couldn't you just write some code like

"If this token is equipped, then calculate reflex and fortitude saves as if Dex and Con were -5," or something like that?

Not saying I like the design, but just wondering.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Picc wrote: What about something like

+5 Str/Dex/Con, does not effect saves

So no +3 fort/reflex and none even stat blocks, but if you built for it you could still get the same HP levels as from tavern bane etc etc . Plus it would fit on the token and be easier to adjudicate in coaching.

I suspect that will lead to large headaches for the people that update the character builders.

As I am not one of those people I'm not sure, but couldn't you just write some code like

"If this token is equipped, then calculate reflex and fortitude saves as if Dex and Con were -5," or something like that?

Not saying I like the design, but just wondering.

That sounds so straightforward, doesn't it? I suspect that it isn't that simple, especially for the spreadsheet.