TOPIC: Nightmare Difficulty

I don't think that is what he was saying. If you turn in all 10 tickets TD doesn't add bodies unless you want them to. I bought a 4 full runs (10 tickets each) the last two years. Some of those runs have been with less than 10. I turn in all 10 tickets no matter how many bodies I have.

I don't know if we should "aim" for a 5-10% survival rate, because that would mean many parties would make it through with a few dead players, but many parties would also TPK before the final room.

I think a survival rate of 50% is better, because at least most parties would get to the final room that way. Really bump up the damage potential for the final boss, on Nightmare.

There should be TPKs in Nightmare, but they shouldn't be the majority of the runs. I think half would be appropriate though.

Ok, something needs to be cleared up for this discussion: what is meant by 'survivability'? Are we talking about beating the final room? Just making it to the final room?

Because, if we mean beating the final room, and people want less than %20 survivability, just toss a dragon fight at the end of every dungeon. ...and for the record, i think that is a horrible idea. We want the threat throughout the dungeon, not just a whammy at the end.
if we are talking about even making it to the last room, less than %20 is very harsh, and in fact will result in many players not running nightmare any more. And what do you do when everyone running nightmare is kitted in relics and up, so %50 survive? Do you make it too difficult for anyone without all the legendaries?

And now that ive said that, i think what i am getting at is that survivability is a bad standard to measure by.

kurtreznor wrote: Ok, something needs to be cleared up for this discussion: what is meant by 'survivability'? Are we talking about beating the final room? Just making it to the final room?

Because, if we mean beating the final room, and people want less than %20 survivability, just toss a dragon fight at the end of every dungeon. ...and for the record, i think that is a horrible idea. We want the threat throughout the dungeon, not just a whammy at the end.
if we are talking about even making it to the last room, less than %20 is very harsh, and in fact will result in many players not running nightmare any more. And what do you do when everyone running nightmare is kitted in relics and up, so %50 survive? Do you make it too difficult for anyone without all the legendaries?

And now that ive said that, i think what i am getting at is that survivability is a bad standard to measure by.

Good point. How about % of party making it through alive without a Smoaky kick in the teeth at the end,

darkangel866 wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: I try to get my parties to run it like grind(combat)...don't do planner charts/beads etc. It wastes too much time for those extra points

For those that don't know, this is where the EN429 never heals anyone joke comes from. Our group always guesses the same thing for skill tests:

Bard: Volkswagon Rune
Cleric: Pride (I think)
Druid: Marijuana leaf
Wizard: who uses wizards anymore? j/k

I guessed gluttony all year one year. I also answer before they get the beads or ask me a bead.

Pelors isn't ecstatic about my 80% but he's ok with it

I know we might not want to add this into mix, but if the last room is a treasure room. Do you want your chances of getting a treasure to be that much lower on nightmare than hardcore or normal?

Smoak was that dungeon. And it was too much on normal.

From here forward, I am speaking of only Nightmare:
On Nightmare though, that's what should be expected, a NIGHTMARE. It should be difficult. With the doubling of healing spells in the party, it should do massive damage over and over again. As it is now, a badly organized team with purps could survive, simply because of the increase in healing.

Monsters on Nightmare were not adjusted for the huge influx of healing created in 2014. 26 AC? Our Barbarian has close to that as a BAB. I had a +15 on the 2-man run as Ranger. 11s are not a challenge.

Maybe survival rate is not the correct way to look at it. How much damage will create a suitable challenge for Nightmare parties to budget resources? Why is there a "no kill" rule in rooms 1-2 for Nightmare? (For that matter, any difficulty . . . that's a different discussion though.)

If Smoak 1.0 showed up in a dungeon today, true Nightmare parties would laugh at her, even with the Ioun Stone. And she is the toughest thing ever seen in TD.

One thing you are forgetting to account for is... LUCK... my party (I wasn't there) all died on a Nightmare run due to bad luck on dice rolls. And they are all purple/relic/legendary out. Luck is just that!

I think the current Nightmare is fine, it was always set up for a group with people to have 2 - 3 purples each. But with the new power we have at hand, Relic's and Legendary's, there should be a new level Hellish. This will give more XP than Nightmare but will truly be hellish for players. Now you would have to have each player have 2 - 3 Relic/Legendary to complete. Boost up the Nightmare by 10% to 20% on the Monsters, push damage is 20, etc.

Don't need to change Nightmare then you are pushing players with 2 - 3 purples from playing it.

This isn't about the treasure it's about challenge. I want to burn all my spells, deplete consumables and have a couple guys make it out alive. Like the Smoak year, these would be epic adventures. I'd almost say double the HP of monsters in Nightmare (from what it is) and there to hit bonus should be a +18-25 .

This isn't about the treasure it's about challenge. I want to burn all my spells, deplete consumables and have a couple guys make it out alive. Like the Smoak year, these would be epic adventures. I'd almost say double the HP of monsters in Nightmare (from what it is) and there to hit bonus should be a +18-25 .

As for the purped guys who were petrified, how did you not see that coming and prepare? There are a couple ways to avoid that.

With the wizards and the MEC, I expect we'll see a big increase in monster HP next year.

I expect Nightmare to be exceptionally difficult, and that's why my group has been playing Hardcore the last two years. We are loving the difficulty level, it is still challenging but we have survived every Dungeon I think, even though we weren't successful in every single room.

On the other hand, five of us did joint as Mercenaries two people for a 7 person Nightmare run, and we didn't have too tough of a time on Nightmare. It seemed like Nightmare this year (for us at least) was a lot easier than it was for the three Smoak years.