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In 2013 our plans call for us to add an additional adventure to the event. There will be two consecutive adventure modules, and each module will have two variations of either a combat or puzzle orientation. The first module called “Lycans Afoot” tasks the party to travel through a dark forest in search of a tower, while the second module called “Golembane” challenges the party to reach the top of tower.
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TOPIC: What's the story with monk slides?

What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #1

Ok, so I haven't played a monk, and I'm relatively new, but one of our group did outfit and play one this year, and was scolded for his sliding. We found the brief blurb in the rule book he referenced, but no real explanation and so this makes no sense to me.. I did search history here and came up empty.... So, What is up with the (rapid) one hand sliding?

So then we asked several GMs and coaches, and heard one "so it's different from other classes" and numerous variations on "because that's how we do it". Bottom line is that this is putting him off the class (leaving me to re equip him).

I get the rangers' two handed approach, to reflect its unique two weapon attack. But then every other class, regardless of melee, spell or ranged, attacks just the exact same? So much for the need for "unique" attacks.

So, how does that lead to a one-handed monk? Was there some obscure Kung-fu movie popular twenty years ago, where the guy uses one hand? Perhaps an inspirational tale of a very handi-capable martial artist?

The monk class has plenty of limitations for gear already to further hobble it in gameplay like this... Why not allow different, (still rapid), throwing styles, to reflect the many different martial art fighting styles?

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Last edit: by chax. Reason: Spelling

Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #2

I have never played the monk myself, but my understanding is you can use a weapon and just use basic slides like most other classes. Or you can use no weapons/monk bracers and slide 2 attacks/round. As there are only 2 classes that can do 2 slides/round I don't see the valid comparison between the monk and everybody else, just between the monk and the ranger.

From my point of view (having not played either class), it seems that sliding 2 attacks has the potential to be significantly more powerful than a single attack. Therefore the restrictions on how you slide those attacks makes sense to me as a balancing mechanic. As for why the ranger and monk slide differently I don't really know, but it doesn't bother me. Personally I would think that the monk style would be easier than the ranger style, but I am very right hand dominant.

What other sliding styles would you like to see the monk be able to use? I lack creativity and really can't think of anything new.

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Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #3

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If using his 'Flurry of Blows', the monk slides with the same hand in quick succession, while a ranger must slide with both hands at the same time.

Personally, I think this gives the monk a bit of an advantage in accuracy (Using their dominant hand both times), so I don't see the problem.
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Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #4

Our 3-legged monk (has a cane) always slides with one hand. As long as the first puck is still sliding before the 2nd is released you should be good

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Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #5

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The monk slide style changed a little over the years. Originally it was a one-two punch.

Like the Ranger, the monk gets two sliders, but unlike the Ranger (who must slide both simultaneously to represent using 2 weapons simultaneously) the monk was supposed to slide one with one hand, and immediately after slide the next with the second hand, so the 2nd slider was being released while the first slider was still in motion.

This was *really* hard to police. Lots of players didn't get how it was supposed to work, and lots of DMs had a hard time watching for it, and the arguments took up too much time in the dungeon.

So they changed it. Now a Monk does a "double-jab" where he shoots 2 puck, but with one hand. The second hand must be keeping the monk nimble yet balanced (for his low AC) and warding off missile attacks or something :P
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Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #6

chax wrote: I get the rangers' two handed approach, to reflect its unique two weapon attack. But then every other class, regardless of melee, spell or ranged, attacks just the exact same?

The combat board is an abstraction. Sometimes, the way we interact with that abstraction might coincidentally resemble what the characters are actually doing, but if so that is just a neat side effect and not the main intent.

The ranger's sliding style only happens to kind of match his 2-weapon fighting. In reality, a ranger isn't literally swinging both weapons at once, or at least not usually. Similarly, the simul-slide for the monk does not literally represent the monk only using one hand, but is rather just a mechanical way to get a reasonable result on the combat board. The rogue placing a puck for a flank attack is another example; for more "realism", it might be more appropriate to slide from the other end of the board. But that's clearly not going to happen. :)

Spellcasters sometimes slide as a quick randomizer that tempts a bit of skill and focus, and is certainly more interesting than rolling a die. But again, it's an abstraction; it's not meant to represent an attack the same way a fighter might swing a sword. Also, the single token slide is again just a skill-influenced randomizer. Clearly, not every class is attacking in the same way. But the nuanced differences in attacks come across other ways, through special abilities and combat modifiers.

While it would be nifty to replicate each character's specific combat style, it would be a logistics nightmare that wouldn't add much to the game. Even if True Dungeon moved to a foam boffer combat system, no matter their class everyone's attack style would basically be the same: either swing your weapon or throw a spell packet. (The ranger and monk would, most likely, be the most clearly different.)

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Last edit: by Garrison.

Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #7

Raven wrote: The monk slide style changed a little over the years. Originally it was a one-two punch.


So the new way is new, not "the way it's always been". How far back was this, if you recall? I bet that is the issue, my friends all have been doing this a long time, and the new rule threw him off...

Raven wrote: ( the older method) was *really* hard to police. Lots of players didn't get how it was supposed to work, and lots of DMs had a hard time watching for it, and the arguments took up too much time in the dungeon.


Harder to police than now, in a room with more folks clamoring for the GMs attention, on limited time? <g>.... I'm just saying, if the rule was simply 'slide two pucks rapid-fire' (just as it was and is) with no further restriction, it would be simpler, and allow players a tiny bit of game-neutral flexibility... Less policing, seems a win-win... I guess all I'm wondering is if this new rule can be re-examined, maybe simplified...

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Last edit: by chax.

Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #8

Raywind wrote: Personally, I think this gives the monk a bit of an advantage in accuracy (Using their dominant hand both times), so I don't see the problem.


I'm assuming the rapid fire delivery is designed to counteract this, two pucks, but sped up so the loss of accuracy offers as much chance for error as more damage..

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Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #9

chax wrote:

Raywind wrote: Personally, I think this gives the monk a bit of an advantage in accuracy (Using their dominant hand both times), so I don't see the problem.


I'm assuming the rapid fire delivery is designed to counteract this, two pucks, but sped up so the loss of accuracy offers as much chance for error as more damage..

Maybe with some practice you can get more accurate. When I ran as a monk this year, I kept hitting the first puck with the second one and knocking them both off target.
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Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #10

I believe the monk attack change happened last yea, but it could have been the year before I forget. So its a relatively new change in the overall scheme.
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Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #11

Monk slides have officially been the way they are now for no less than three years.
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Re: What's the story with monk slides? 10 years 6 months ago #12

I too had a training judge come up to me and ask me if I knew how it worked. I will admit my first time last year on the first room I was a bit slow off the slide on the second. This year a few times I grabbed for the second puck after sliding and knocked the weapon out so I just picked it up and told the GM that I didn't get off the second swing.

It has been this way for the last two years, and apparently this year with a lot of new players they were having people slide once and wait then slide the second.

I enjoy the challenge of it, and even on the force field construct I was able to get both pucks through 3 out of 4 times :)
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