TOPIC: Will runs shorted completion tokens get those ?

I understand the need for and appreciate the flexibility, and I know that it's part of TD policy to allow unanimous changes in difficulty. But changing difficulty doesn't mean you are suddenly entitled to something different than was advertised.

Sorry, I just don't see it. If you upgraded your run to Nightmare but complain you didn't get the rare participation token, that's just unrealistic.

I'm sure they had extras for Hardcore, and were willing to work with people the best that they could. Okay, so it turns out that they didn't make enough extras (or maybe they did, if you don't count those who went from Normal to Nightmare as well as the errors at the XP desk where 2 reds were being given out instead of 1). But what are Jeff and co. supposed to do? Print 8,000 of each participation token just in case? No.

Good to know there was an official set of what to give out at the XP desk. But out of the 5 times I approached the desk only twice did it turn out as listed, so I hope people can understand my confusion. I didn't get upset about it though. So what do people expect them to do now? Does anyone think it's really reasonable for them to figure out how many hundreds of people they "owe" tokens to and mail them out individually? Ridiculous.

Fine, they need to hammer some things out to make sure this doesn't happen again. But otherwise I suggest we drop it. This coming from someone who was shorted a few red tokens himself.

So I can sign up for a nightmare run, change it to normal and get the nightmare completion tokens?That's the outcome you suggest. After all I get what I signed up for.

I am sure this will get worked out over time in a way that preserves flexibility. With a baseline year under their belt it will be easier to predict demand for token types down the road.

Harlax wrote: So I can sign up for a nightmare run, change it to normal and get the nightmare completion tokens? That's the outcome you suggest. After all I get what I signed up for.

Assuming everyone in the group agrees to reduce the difficulty, yes. That may be kind of cheesy from a player perspective, but it makes sense from what to expect from a business that needs to plan logistics many months in advance. They can't change everything on a whim like that.

Harlax wrote: I am sure this will get worked out over time in a way that preserves flexibility. With a baseline year under their belt it will be easier to predict demand for token types down the road.

Yes, I'm sure it will be so. Years of change will always have some bumps.

Your are supposed to be able to change to the difficulty specifically because they used to have lots of dedicated nightmare slots but players would buy them and not be prepared. So instead of making a bunch of separate runs they just let you choose nightmare. Forcing you to normal means you would have to offer more dedicated nightmare runs and have all the same problems they used too. I think the main issue was how popular Hardcore was, and that you got the rare completion token. I think they will have the ratio figured out for next year.

Ok, but to my point, TD has at least our names, forum names, and addresses for many of us. Even if enough reds were not brought to Indy, underestimating is SOP, and can they not be sent now?

As far as the side argument goes, difficulty is supposed to be changeable in the ready room, period. i reject the idea that difficulty is known when you buy your ticket or get your band as patently false and bordering on trolling. Flexibility is part of the plan, part of the open idea of the event.

I suspect that chosen difficulty increases over the weekend in a known trend, so the ultimate number of reds could be estimated as the con progresses.

Kudos, in fact, to TD, as they seem to have run out fairly close to the end, so I believe they already were 'on' the issue, but were just short.

So, back to my question; what now for those who finished hc+ runs after they ran out of reds? Any on-topic ideas or answers?

Out is just out. I'm sorry that happened to you. It happened to me as well. I'm not expecting TD to mail me a token however. In order for that to happen the token would have to be reprinted.

i didnt get one either, but They ran out. Did not print extra, So We are SOL

next year, I just plan to have all my runs completed before saturday night

Garrison, I see what your saying but the flaw is this would greatly disrupt buying events. TD would have to list hardcore runs in addition to nightmare and normal runs. Trying to balance all that versus bring along more tokens, its WAY easier for TD to just bring more tokens.

The reason they ran out is more people ran hardcore than they expected.
It was a new thing and I"m sure they will have it fixed for next time. Trying to shoehorn people into a particular reward because of the ticket they bought adds a level of complication that doesn't need to be there.

If the changes you suggest were made, imagine how many folks will post pissed off they didn't get the difficulty of the run they were after. LOTs more will be pissed than are currently upset.

chax wrote: ...difficulty is supposed to be changeable in the ready room, period. I reject the idea that difficulty is known when you buy your ticket or get your band as patently false and bordering on trolling.

And yet they sell tickets for specifically Nightmare runs, and the wrist bands specifically say Nightmare on them. The only thing you don't know is whether your Normal group will unanimously agree to change to a harder run. And that is certainly not guaranteed. The best reasonable assumption is that you'll be running Normal when you sign up for Normal, and Nightmare when you sign up for Nightmare. If X people signed up for Normal, and Y people signed up for Nightmare, of course there will be some changes but the best reasonable assumption for TD to make is that roughly those numbers will be playing those difficulties. How is this line of reasoning "patently false"?

If the game would work better where any slot can easily become any difficulty, fine. But that is not the system currently in place.

chax wrote: So, back to my question; what now for those who finished hc+ runs after they ran out of reds? Any on-topic ideas or answers?

They ran out. We are out of luck. They are not shipping them. Even if they had enough on hand, expecting them to go through the trouble of mailing out possibly hundreds of individual tokens to hundreds of addresses is unrealistic.

Garrison wrote: If the game would work better where any slot can easily become any difficulty, fine. But that is not the system currently in place.

That is the system currently in place. It was made that way in response to how the system used to work where they had many dedicated Nightmare runs that were often converted to normal and normal runs that were converted to nightmare. the only reason there is any dedicated nightmare runs is because the Boards asked for it as a way to have nightmare Pick Up Games, but it seems that it still did not work as intended even with a limited number of nightmare runs.

I can kind of see an argument for dedicated nightmare runs being forced to stay nightmare, some people use them to lock in their XP but the simple fact is if 5 newbies grab 5 nightmare tickets because they are available (and they do because their newbies) your group isn't going to fair well if your forced to play nightmare anyway. In cases like that there is also the very real chance you will die before the last room and not get full XP anyway. Its not a perfect system and yes its really frustrating to signup for nightmare and get bumped down but I'm at a loss to think of a better solution.

commanderFuron wrote:

Garrison wrote: If the game would work better where any slot can easily become any difficulty, fine. But that is not the system currently in place.

That is the system currently in place. It was made that way in response to how the system used to work where they had many dedicated Nightmare runs that were often converted to normal and normal runs that were converted to nightmare. the only reason there is any dedicated nightmare runs is because the Boards asked for it as a way to have nightmare Pick Up Games, but it seems that it still did not work as intended even with a limited number of nightmare runs.

Ah, I see. I stand corrected.

Since I've been browsing this forum frequently (almost daily) for the past two years, I'm not sure how I got confused about this. Sorry, everyone, for getting agitated.