TOPIC: Creative mode

All the talk of whale runs and not being able to use gear in logical ways has me thinking. What would people thinking if TD added a creative mode where it was allowed and encouraged to use tokens as creatively as you liked. It could be grant less xp and require unanimous party consent like non lethal but the trade off would be if you can logically use your wits and your gear to bypass a puzzle then go for it.

Personally I'd go for runs like this (right after I got my xp for the year) maybe even with restricted items like gear+commons but that would be for groups to decide on an individual basis.

I'd say the biggest thing that would hold this back is DM training. The more modes we have, the more DM's have to be trained to handle them. A "creative run" would be more complicated than other styles of runs, stretching DM skills even further.

Yes, the DMs might be the limiting factor. I would think that only those who have experience running actual role-playing games would be good candidates. Or at least people who have played a pen & paper RPG in some way.

In addition to no XP however, I'm afraid there might also have to be no treasure pulls. Otherwise, HoP/CoGF/RoR-laden parties will just steamroll such events.

I would also worried about the increased chance for disagreements. Just because you find something logical doesn't mean the DM does. And when there is a disagreement on what is logical then logic often flies out the door.

I would also suggest that the unanticipated mix of solutions to the challenges encountered in the dungeons is a significant part of the enjoyment. One room may be a tough battle, then an odd puzzle, then a challenge that can be solved with a rope and grapnel. That variety is part of the fun. If we have a dungeon in which we know in advance that alot of it will be solved with basic ingenuity, its maybe a little too preconceived and anticipated. I must say, I like the general idea of inserting non-magical non-brawn gear-based solution rooms into the dungeon. We always carry gear with us, we almost never get to use it. As has been said often by multiple players - if we can't use the basic tokens, why make them at all?

Garrison wrote: Yes, the DMs might be the limiting factor. I would think that only those who have experience running actual role-playing games would be good candidates. Or at least people who have played a pen & paper RPG in some way.

In addition to no XP however, I'm afraid there might also have to be no treasure pulls. Otherwise, HoP/CoGF/RoR-laden parties will just steamroll such events.

Honestly those parties can just steam roll normal to farm treasure too so I don't really see that as much of an issue.

Any non-treasure room can be defeated with a pocketful of Frostberries.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Any non-treasure room can be defeated with a pocketful of Frostberries.

LOL. This is true....to a degree. If it is a monster room you might not be able to eat them fast enough.

True about the frostberries, but if you seek immersion as I do, you want to overcome the dungeon, not just heal the damage.

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Any non-treasure room can be defeated with a pocketful of Frostberries.

LOL. This is true....to a degree. If it is a monster room you might not be able to eat them fast enough.

Hehe - sure you can. Just stumble around and slide really slooooowly and take forever on skill checks and whatnot. The critter can't take it's turn before you do...

But my post was half in jest. It was shorthand for this:

In a sense, how you do in four of the rooms doesn't much matter except from a damage perspective. So I'm thinking (today anyway) that DMs could be less consistent and more liberal about creativity in those four rooms without affecting the token economy much. But the game is about more than tokens...

Because in my mind, time is again the enemy. Most attempts at creativity that I've seen come in the latter half of the room from frustration. So now I have to try to call a director on the radio, wait for one to be found, explain the situation, get an answer, explain the answer and let the party work with it. So do I want them wasting half their remaining time standing around only to be told no? Or do i say yes and then take all that time from the next party to explain what I did to those same folks? Or do I shoot the party down and try to get them on the right track to a solution I know is acceptable?

In the long run it seems kinder, at least at the time, to save them precious minutes and say "no" right away if I have any doubts about the answer.

And no, it's not as much fun for anyone involved.

So back to my quip. If we get the blessing that we can do almost anything in the non-stamp rooms under the theory they can defeat it with enough pots and scrolls anyway, then I think there would be less "no" in those rooms, at least. But that's not up to me.

I know it is jest but still. The most berries you can eat in one round is 1. Even if you stall the monster is likely to get 1 attack (maybe you are good enough at stalling for zero. But if it is zero you still take push damage into the next room. You cannot heal up after the push damage. If the next room is combat as well, you may be killed by push because you only are healing 1hp in each room of combat. Of course this all depends on difficulty and how many HP your character has. It is a silly exercise anyway.

As I mentioned in a previous post about gear my opinion is that if gear is print the same year as the run (i.e. 2013 there was Mortal & Pestle, Small Silver Mirror, Whetsone, and how could I forget the Duck) then you should be able to use it in the dungeon.

For example the small silver mirror should instantly give you the Dryad waterfall clue.

Ed