TOPIC: Too Many People in puzzle runs

So I absolutely love True Dungeon. It is a must for anyone who loves D&D at GenCon. However, while the puzzles have gotten more fun, the groups have gotten too big. 12 people is too many on a run. You have too many cooks in the kitchen when you're doing puzzles and it definitely takes some of the fun out of it. I wish they would increase the price and decrease the number of people on runs.

The max per group is 10, but still it can be daunting if everyone crowds around to try and solve a puzzle. Sometimes people need to step back and let a few work on the puzzle.

Erica Brehmer wrote: So I absolutely love True Dungeon. It is a must for anyone who loves D&D at GenCon. However, while the puzzles have gotten more fun, the groups have gotten too big. 12 people is too many on a run. You have too many cooks in the kitchen when you're doing puzzles and it definitely takes some of the fun out of it. I wish they would increase the price and decrease the number of people on runs.

you can always buy all 10 tickets and use as many as you want. That way you increase the price, and have less people. The group can divide the total cost

my group used to do that ( there were 8 of us) now I am a lone wolf, I dont want to run the dungeons as a party of one

Yes if you want fewer people just buy more tickets. My group does this. The side effect is, much higher prices. On the plus side, you can get tokens for each wristband you buy.


@lazlo I might have a party of 4 you can join on thursday. We're currently debating on if we can quad it.


Puzzles are trending on requiring more warm bodies to solve, which can pose additional challenges for groups running under the 10.

Alvin Oliver wrote: The max per group is 10, but still it can be daunting if everyone crowds around to try and solve a puzzle. Sometimes people need to step back and let a few work on the puzzle.

When paying $40 to play, asking half the group to not play in a couple rooms is a tough sell.

True, but asking 10 people paying 44 dollars to work together or even stop and listen to one person with a idea is almost impossible at times.

valetutto wrote: Yes if you want fewer people just buy more tickets. My group does this. The side effect is, much higher prices. On the plus side, you can get tokens for each wristband you buy.


@lazlo I might have a party of 4 you can join on thursday. We're currently debating on if we can quad it.


Puzzles are trending on requiring more warm bodies to solve, which can pose additional challenges for groups running under the 10.

what time on thursday

We usually get our group to designate a "party leader" in advance. All you need to do then is get everyone to agree that when the party leader says "shut up" or "move over here" that you all do it.

In combat rooms that means the leader is in charge of setting the area the non-token chuckers need to stand in, which is well away from the board. That way the GM can go to one group and get all the spell casting done at one time while the melee and ranged guys do the sliding.

In puzzle rooms, the leader is in charge of asking the questions of the whole group and gathering the responses. The leader is also the one to report to before you try something. This usually gets us through the room with less damage. It also gives the GM someone to listen too instead of trying to watch and listen to ten people running around like mad. I'd say this has helped us the most since there were several puzzles we've done before that ended in failure and after the reveal someone says, "I tried that but the GM didn't see me do it."

I think that's a fantastic strategy/policy Legion!

I agree with you, Erica. I love true dungeon. It is a lot of fun and it used to be the crown jewel of my Gencon experience. There is just something special about crawling around in a dungeon. BUT, the increase to 10 players really takes away from the individual experience for me (combat or puzzle, but especially puzzle rooms). I do appreciate that going to 10 gives as many people as possible an opportunity for a true dungeon experience, but couple that with the increase in price to $44 bucks a pop, for me it pushes True Dungeon into the "Is is really worth it?" category. With 10 players it feels like we are cattle being herded through the rooms and individual contributions are minimal. I have played a lot of DnD and anytime a group gets over 6 players, the experience really suffers (I think it has to do with the exponential number of interpersonal connections with increasing group size).

The suggestion to sit back and not participate seems well meaning, but why am I paying $44 bucks to sit there and let other people have fun while I watch? The fun of TD is being part of the action. And as far as buying a whole slot and paring it down to 8 players, it just isn't worth the expense and effort of recruiting a group (I usually go to Gencon with a group of 2-5 players, and for 99% of Genconers buying a whole slot is just not reasonable).

Perhaps, once the masses get a lackluster True Dungeon experience paying top dollar prices, the popularity will wane and things will change. The general sentiment on the Gencon forum seems to agree that 10 players is just too many, but True Dungeon sold 90% of their runs this year on the first day. Although as far as I can recall, this is the first time TD hasn't sold out within a week. Maybe that is a sign that the value of TD just isn't what it used to be. I truly wish nothing but success for TD, but for me the money to fun ratio is right at the breaking point.

Dont forget this is also the year that 33% more tickets are available due to adding the fourth track. So even though it didnt sell out they still sold more tickets than last year. I don't see that as a sign of waning popularity.

Studnougat wrote: With 10 players it feels like we are cattle being herded through the rooms and individual contributions are minimal. I have played a lot of DnD and anytime a group gets over 6 players, the experience really suffers...

Agreed. Even when I have fun, I feel this way at least twice during each run; my contribution is practically nil. After every run where there have been newbies, this is usually the #1 reason they express disappointment and the decision to not return.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Dont forget this is also the year that 33% more tickets are available due to adding the fourth track. So even though it didnt sell out they still sold more tickets than last year. I don't see that as a sign of waning popularity.

That doesn't mean popularity didn't wane with those who are already familiar with it. It could just mean that True Dungeon has yet to saturate the GenCon attendee pool. Many of those tickets could be simply due to the greatly expanded awareness last year's front-line position afforded TD, combined with the difficulty people had getting tickets last year prompting them to pounce all the more this year.

Within the actual game...well, in my mind it's already not much of a game. Just too many people, too fast. If the main counterpoint to that concern is "you can just buy more tickets to reduce player numbers", then the point is being missed. I realize that True Dungeon isn't really a LARP or even a role-playing game, but at this point it can barely even be called a game; it's a haunted house with some interactivity. It is elaborate, but is at best a game of skill like you'd find at a carnival. Slide the puck on the target to win a prize! I suspect things were less pretty but more enjoyable back when it was more of a boutique event.

Not sure what I would suggest it do otherwise. I think it's done phenomenal for what it is, and has done everything "right" thus far. But I doubt it can continue things as they are. Once the bulk of yearly returning GenCon peeps have given it a shot, I suspect the attendance will drop sharply. I find it possibly telling that many of the biggest tokenaholics and power players of the game's heyday no longer play.

Maybe the focus can be shifted slightly. Sell it as less of a "game" and more of an "interactive experience"? Dunno. I guess at this point it's pretty well figured out a good working system, so there's no reason to change things up until and unless the current model proves outdated.

Well then. Sorry. Where did all of that come from?!