TOPIC: Rogue puzzle box request/plea

It might be fun sometimes for the successful Rogue test to give a clue, or a token draw for the entire group. If you did a treasure mix like the Treasure Map boxes, that wouldn't be too expensive, it would just be at most the equivalent of one Treasure Map worth of tokens. You'd really have everyone cheering the Rogue on then!

I seem to recall a few years ago when they revamped the first True Dungeon run (complete with "I really screwed my party" t-shirts), in one of the very first rooms, there was a Rogue's Challenge that unlocked the door to the next room. Some kind of locked and trapped sewer grating or something. I could be remembering wrong, but I do remember our GM saying that the Rogue needed to unlock the grating before we could move on, and I swear there was a Rogue box involved.

And I remember knocking it out with no trouble; at least, the GM claimed that I was "smug and over-confident at the ease with which the lock was picked."

Nimble wrote: I seem to recall a few years ago when they revamped the first True Dungeon run (complete with "I really screwed my party" t-shirts), in one of the very first rooms, there was a Rogue's Challenge that unlocked the door to the next room. Some kind of locked and trapped sewer grating or something. I could be remembering wrong, but I do remember our GM saying that the Rogue needed to unlock the grating before we could move on, and I swear there was a Rogue box involved.

And I remember knocking it out with no trouble; at least, the GM claimed that I was "smug and over-confident at the ease with which the lock was picked."

They did have some stuff like that in the early years, and I believe they stopped because of concerns over what would happen to a group without a Rogue (or with a Rogue unable to pass the skill test). That is why I think if we do something like that again, there would have to be another (more painful) way to resolve the problem if the Rogue can't. I think it would add flavor to the game if the Rogue were doing something concrete to aid in the adventure, like unlocking a door or disarming a trap instead of just getting a clue or token.

Mike Steele wrote:

Nimble wrote: I seem to recall a few years ago when they revamped the first True Dungeon run (complete with "I really screwed my party" t-shirts), in one of the very first rooms, there was a Rogue's Challenge that unlocked the door to the next room. Some kind of locked and trapped sewer grating or something. I could be remembering wrong, but I do remember our GM saying that the Rogue needed to unlock the grating before we could move on, and I swear there was a Rogue box involved.

And I remember knocking it out with no trouble; at least, the GM claimed that I was "smug and over-confident at the ease with which the lock was picked."

They did have some stuff like that in the early years, and I believe they stopped because of concerns over what would happen to a group without a Rogue (or with a Rogue unable to pass the skill test). That is why I think if we do something like that again, there would have to be another (more painful) way to resolve the problem if the Rogue can't. I think it would add flavor to the game if the Rogue were doing something concrete to aid in the adventure, like unlocking a door or disarming a trap instead of just getting a clue or token.

I love the sound of that - maybe add in a few class specific chalenges - at least 3 to ensure you have 1 of those party members. Maybe a druid test, a rogue box, arcane knoweldge check, or just a brute force last ditch method if all else fails. The last being rather dmg heavy ... to the player(s).

Incognito wrote: Don't be so quick to knock even commons and uncommons. Nowadays, with trade tokens, everything potentially has *some* value....

Blech. I disagree. As someone has mentioned, playing rogue means spending a good amount of time on your run fiddling with boxes instead of participating in group activities. While I'm personally not terribly interested in playing the rogue, I'm all for giving them at least a rare if they decide to go through the trouble of sacrificing so much of their TD run on a box.

I would prefer the "treasure" be a wide variety though, possibly specifically mentioned in the adventure module.

For example: "There is a rogue box in this room. If the clue is chosen, it says "xxx". If treasure is chosen, the rogue finds a cache of healing potions! The rogue may either immediately heal 4 hp to themselves, or heal 2 hp to each party member."

Just one example, that. Some other boxes could just contain a random rare. Or even an extra treasure token for the rogue. I would be okay with this, because via Horn of Plenty it would be more in the rogue's interest to get the clue to ensure the party gets a treasure stamp rather than go for the treasure. Someone else already mentioned many other possibilities, and I'm all for introducing variety. One other idea: In each dungeon, one of the rogue box treasures will be a "4th stamp". I doubt this would lead to the party pressuring the rogue to always take the treasure, because most of the rogue box treasures would not be helpful to the overall party and it would remain in the group's best interest to have the rogue pick "clue".

Shifting gears a bit, I think a good point to consider is that Jeff promised a return of traps this year. The first time I played TD, I suggested to the rogue that once they picked the lock they actually have the barbarian, monk or fighter open it - someone with good saves, or at least lots of hit points. I think that would be a good tactic in general for our 2013 runs.

Finally, I mentioned in a PM to Jeff a month or two ago how it'd be nice to have the rogue skill test do more than just open boxes. He mentioned the example of the year when it was used to open a gate/door, and said he would consider new options going forward. I also agree it would be nice to have other, more interactive and unique options available for other classes. The whole bead/symbol/planes memorization system is a very solid attempt at this, but I keep feeling that at this point something else should be possible. No specific suggestions at this point; I must ponder.

Yeah, I mean, the Rogue test can be used for any number of things. Say, for instance, a trapped door with no visible means of opening it. The party is being chased and have only a few combat rounds to bash down the door and escape (shuffleboard table with a door on it), but anyone who hits the door takes some amount of Retribution damage from the trap with each hit, unless the Rogue can disarm the trap beforehand.

That way, the Rogue's test can be used to ease the path forward, but it's not the only way to deal with the problem at hand (i.e. use Shirts of Shielding; or buff up your biggest, beefiest melee characters and have them hit the door with the rest of the party spending their turns healing them and feeding them potions). Or, you could just eat the damage; that's [almost] always an option when you're pressed for time.

Incognito wrote: Charm of Greedy Fingers

Omg that is so good I laughed out loud. Thank you incognito you just made my day.

I would prefer an extra treasure draw token from the end like all the other treasure draws

If one of the treasures in every Dungeon were a fourth treasure stamp, I'd sure be encouraging the Rogue to take treasures every time until we got that fourth treasure stamp

[quote="Garrison" post=165761
Shifting gears a bit, I think a good point to consider is that Jeff promised a return of traps this year. The first time I played TD, I suggested to the rogue that once they picked the lock they actually have the barbarian, monk or fighter open it - someone with good saves, or at least lots of hit points. I think that would be a good tactic in general for our 2013 runs.

Finally, I mentioned in a PM to Jeff a month or two ago how it'd be nice to have the rogue skill test do more than just open boxes. He mentioned the example of the year when it was used to open a gate/door, and said he would consider new options going forward. I also agree it would be nice to have other, more interactive and unique options available for other classes. The whole bead/symbol/planes memorization system is a very solid attempt at this, but I keep feeling that at this point something else should be possible. No specific suggestions at this point; I must ponder. [/quote]

I think back to True Heroes, where each Hero had a unique ability, and it seemed that the Dungeon was designed to give each of them an obvious and fun opportunity to use their ability. That does get harder obviously with 10 players and only 7 rooms, but it could be spread around to more than just the Rogue. And I don't see that as a negative for the Rogue, for as someone mentioned if there are 5 rooms with Rogue's boxes, that is five rooms where the Rogue is missing out on a lot of what is going on at the start of the room while they work on that box. Spreading it around the classes more would let the Rogue participate more with the group in some rooms.

Nimble wrote: Yeah, I mean, the Rogue test can be used for any number of things.

Yup. I'd like to see the Rogue test as a general "mechanics" type of skill test, usable for when you want to pick a lock, disable a trap, open a secret door without truly figuring out the proper opening method, and a whole host of generic mechanical fiddling. Of course, when available this should only be an optional route and never the one and only method of solving a situation, and in certain cases should have a drawback if the Rogue method would be "easier" than the standard way.

Mike Steele wrote: If one of the treasures in every Dungeon were a fourth treasure stamp, I'd sure be encouraging the Rogue to take treasures every time until we got that fourth treasure stamp

Hm. Well, on your first run through you might not, since you'd be passing up a clue or two on average before you get your stamp, which might make it so you can't get all of your standard 3 stamps if you can't solve the puzzles due to lack of clues. Although I admit that's a minor point, and if you do multiple runs and/or word gets out about which chest is the "hot" one, then of course the Rogue would get undue pressure.

Perhaps there could be a randomized element? Each time a Rogue opens a box and chooses "treasure" over the clue, the DM quickly rolls to see if a 4th stamp is available in that Rogue box (maybe 1:8 chance? 1:12? Or maybe only if he rolls a 1 on a d20?). Of course, the DM would first check the party card to make sure the party hasn't already gotten a 4th stamp for the dungeon. On average, maybe only 1 chest for every 2 runs or so will have the 4th stamp option.

I realize "treasure bloat" is an issue, but I think a system like this will satisfy peoples' excitement over gaining extra loot while at the same time reigning back treasure bloat much better than printing extra token pull items every year or two.