TOPIC: Super Final Token Artwork...PLEASE PROOF

<br />The problem with HARDCORE was there were really two kinds of HARDCORE players:  1)token light players looking for a real challenge  2) token heavy players looking for a challenge.  I was forced to cater to the token-light players because I did not want to make it a "must have tokens to survive" thing.  However, after the event was over it was clear that HARCORE was really not that fun for the majority of the people playing it -- the token collector.<br /><br />So, I am killing HARDCORE and replacing it with a new setting called "Nightmare!" which will be specifically designed for token collectors -- who make up most of the players who want a high-demand version.  While it is possible to survive without a lot of tokens, your chances will be slim.  Your risks will be greater, but so will your rewards -- both in terms of XP and treasure.  And it won't be just tougher stats -- I am also tinkering around with some very simple mechanics that will make Nightmare! combat require more skill.<br /><br />Stay tuned.  I will need your feedback!<br />

<br /><br />I see - changing the name makes it clear that this is a much tougher test.  I like the fact that you're changing some mechanics as well as the stats.  And I REALLY like the "greater XP and Treasure" part.<br /><br />Can I suggest that, for experience, you go back to the "greatest experience level gained from a dungeon" method (i.e. if you do both Nightmare & Regular you just get the highest experience once) instead of the "combining the greatest experience from both a regular run and a hardcore run"?  That would keep token-rich parties from having to mow down the monsters in a regular dungeon run in order to get the extra experience.  That way a party can aim for the adventure that best fits their desires and level of tokens, instead of feeling they have to do both versions to get all the experience. 

Ooo, more treasure does sound nice.<br /><br />Anyone care to speculate on what percentages should stock the treasure chests? Having a realistic chance to pull a single UR in a run would be nice.<br /><br />Maybe:<br />0% commons <br />50% uncommons (gold and expendable items such as potions and scrolls only)<br />25% rares<br />20% ingredients or other tokens<br />5% URs<br /><br />or if, even for nightmare, that's to UR heavy:<br />0% commons <br />55% uncommons (gold and expendable items such as potions and scrolls only)<br />25% rares<br />18% ingredients or other tokens<br />2% URs<br /><br />or:<br />0% common<br />55% uncommons (gold and expendable items such as potions and scrolls only)<br />25% rares<br />16% ingredients or other tokens<br />4% URs<br /><br /><br /><br />

What Turnip is trying to say is: For the love of God, please no more commons! 

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<br />So based on cloaks and robes and RoP, what is the best AC for the wizard?  Mage armor doesn't stack with the Cloak of the Mage, right?  What about the Robes of the Mage?<br />

<br /><br />4 (isn't it 4?) for the cloak. 2 for the robe. 2 for the bracers. 1 for the amulet. 1 for the gloves. 1 for the ring. So 21 or so as it stands I think.<br />

<br /><br />Base AC of 10 (No Dex Mod) then layer on Cloak of the Mage +3 (UR), Robe of the Mage +2 (R), Bracers of Defense (UR)+2 (else its +1), Amulet of Natural Armor +1(R2006), Gloves of Dex +1(UR), RoP +1(R) and you get to AC 20, then for a temporary boost add a Potion of Cats Grace(U) for +2AC = 22  But its a collection of 3 URs to get that high.  <br /><br />If you are Rare only person Mage Armor (+4), Bracers of Defense (+1) Amulet (+1), RoP (+1), and Potion of Cats Grace (+2) w/ Belt of Retrieval(R) you can get AC19 or if you are limited to recent tokens then the Bracers of Deflection (U) will be worth it vs. ranged attacks (+2AC) if you dont have access to the Bracers of Defense.

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<br />The problem with HARDCORE was there were really two kinds of HARDCORE players:  1)token light players looking for a real challenge  2) token heavy players looking for a challenge.  I was forced to cater to the token-light players because I did not want to make it a "must have tokens to survive" thing.  However, after the event was over it was clear that HARCORE was really not that fun for the majority of the people playing it -- the token collector.<br /><br />So, I am killing HARDCORE and replacing it with a new setting called "Nightmare!" which will be specifically designed for token collectors -- who make up most of the players who want a high-demand version.  While it is possible to survive without a lot of tokens, your chances will be slim.  Your risks will be greater, but so will your rewards -- both in terms of XP and treasure.  And it won't be just tougher stats -- I am also tinkering around with some very simple mechanics that will make Nightmare! combat require more skill.<br /><br />Stay tuned.  I will need your feedback!<br />

<br /><br />I see - changing the name makes it clear that this is a much tougher test.   I like the fact that you're changing some mechanics as well as the stats.  And I REALLY like the "greater XP and Treasure" part.<br /><br />Can I suggest that, for experience, you go back to the "greatest experience level gained from a dungeon" method (i.e. if you do both Nightmare & Regular you just get the highest experience once) instead of the "combining the greatest experience from both a regular run and a hardcore run"?  That would keep token-rich parties from having to mow down the monsters in a regular dungeon run in order to get the extra experience.  That way a party can aim for the adventure that best fits their desires and level of tokens, instead of feeling they have to do both versions to get all the experience.  <br />

<br /><br />Im against that one as a first time player. Sorry Mike

<br />What Turnip is trying to say is: For the love of God, please no more commons!  <br />

<br /><br />Nightmare mode, battling on a knife's edge between life and death and to the victor, oh what mighty spoils await within that treasure chest? Why, it's 50 feet of rope! Now none may challenge my pure unadulterated awesomeness!<br /><br />Worth it. 

Gone for a weekend and look what happens.  Great thread and eventhough I haven't really studied all the tokens and the implications yet, I'm impressed with TD's efforts to stay on a cutting edge so to speak of presenting a lot of options to the players. <br /><br />

Team Token made it through HARDCORE 2007 without getting taking a hit...some of us had been through before, but we let those who had not done the dungeon solve things...<br />

<br /><br />What Gary said is absolutely true, but there is one thing in the power creep that will never be stopped--a team's actual experiences of going through the dungeons together year after year.  Team token's run was kind of a lark in the respect--that we took no hit point damage, but as Gary said, there were reasons for that.  Most of us had been together in previous years.  Months before GenCon we studied clues and planned strategies for what we do when we go in a room.  Yes, most were maxed out AC wise, but by the same "token" we had and have great sliders that seem to get better each year.  Spell casters knew what to do and when.  I think we could have done without + weapons and killed the monsters almost as quickly.  We killed Hardcore mosters before they were able to statistically have a much of a chance to hit us, and we had several great saving throws.  The most fun was not so much solving the puzzles, or killing the monsters--it was being with the people.<br /><br />I absolutely look forward to Nightmare scenarios, but more than that I look forward to seeing and interacting with the people--team token, the DMs, the people behind the scenes, the tavern staff, and all the thought and planning.  I'm not sure getting the UR tokens will be the challenge in years to come.  Getting a slot to play might be the greatest challenge as more and more people try to join in, but once again actual experience will be critical in covering those slots.<br /><br />Just my whimsical thoughts.<br /><br />Widseth