TOPIC: New Token Ideas

Ring of Invisibility (use for one room, once per adventure)

Edited to Add Items.

- A scroll or potion of Speed/Haste (double the attacks for the duration of one room)
- I like the idea of more permanent things with limited uses (once per adventure)

A couple of comments:

First, I think everyone needs to remember that the game is NOT the tokens. Tokens for the most part are enchancements, not requirements, so not having tokens available (like a +1 weapon) will not hinder or discourage participation. Not having regular weapons could though... but there are plenty of those to go around currently.

Second, personally, I am not in favor of a "banned" list. If someone buys a pack and gets a "banned" token, they are going to feel cheated. Tokens should be made with the idea that they will be used or not made at all.

Third, I like the idea of once per dungeon type tokens but I think this is going to be a headache for TD to keep track of. I am still not sure how exactly they are going to track Thieves tools.

Finally, I agree with Gary that TD should plan to come out with new tokens each year both from a financial perspective and a player enjoyment perspective. And while it might be more complicated when designing dungeons, it allows different configurations of TD (e.g. introducing new game mechanics). Dungeons, however, will need to be designed with the potential that ANY token (from any print run) could be used in all of the rooms.

My 3 cents,
Douglas

Dungeons, however, will need to be designed with the potential that ANY token (from any print run) could be used in all of the rooms.My 3 cents,Douglas

The above is a nice alternative to having a banned list. I agree with Douglas that this would be the best answer for TD to consider. My suggestion to have a master set of tokens and produce expansion packs keys to that goal also. The idea being that the same tokens would continue to circulate every year - for new players and old, collectors or casual users as needed. (and much like the experience point debate - new players can catch up to veterans by buying more of the standard set of tokens as opposed to expansion packs.)

Although Douglas is against banning - I see it as a potential solution if the above is not adopted. Banning is a natural progression or mechanics resolution tool - for example - if everyone puts the rush on for DarkVision TD would need several light sources ready at any given time - that is unless the current rules are changed. If TD has only 8 light sources today and costs prohibit buying more...then banning, limiting or rule revisions have to come into play - it is either that or tokens cease to exist. (And I doubt that selling 500+ units in 2-3 weeks is something that Jeff would want to stop...)

Personally I would not be upset if banning of tokens went into effect, like Douglas said Tokens are not the game - just a nice to have...banning something for logistics is no big deal. Of course my first desire would be to have everything back into the mix...light scroll included - what mage can't pop a light spell when needed???

I collect tokens and I use them to augment my game...if TD needs to ban something one year, fine - there has to be a good reason and we all can deal with that. If an item needs to be taken away from the game - that is different. I would debate that it is not in the spirit of D&D to retire (remove from play)something, hence my proposed options for a standard set of tokens and expansion packs either with banning or without as needed. *Getting off soap box --- again*

A couple of comments:

Third, I like the idea of once per dungeon type tokens but I think this is going to be a headache for TD to keep track of. I am still not sure how exactly they are going to track Thieves tools.

Currently we can not track them, it is just player honesty.

Maybe we can agree on a special mark(s) for the token like on the edge or something, I do not know at this point.

Dave

Of course there is one easy solution with Darkvision. You could limit the number used per party (e.g. one extra light source) and/or start taking the used potions out of circulation and *gulp* destroy them.

Anyone have any Potions of Darkvision for trade? ;^)

-Douglas

Just got 3 DV Potions in my last pull! Once you adjust the guide price we can talk!!!

Just got 3 DV Potions in my last pull! Once you adjust the guide price we can talk!!!

Only because you KNOW the price is going up... *grumble*



-Douglas

Well I knew the price on Flame Arrow was going up too!

Just between us addicts - I had 7 of the 14! Almost made me become a mage...almost.

If someone was clever and talented, you could make a token "lock" like they have on CDs. The lock can only be removed at the end of the adventure with the key.

Of course there is one easy solution with Darkvision. You could limit the number used per party (e.g. one extra light source) and/or start taking the used potions out of circulation and *gulp* destroy them.

Anyone have any Potions of Darkvision for trade? ;^)

-Douglas

I have two... you'll note one is on my trade list.

In a broad sense, it seems to me the "easiest" for TD to replace Darkvision with, or run as part the next set, would be consumable items such as potions or scrolls. In this case that Jeff brought up, something of approximate equal "value".

:arrow: My initial inclination would too replace Darvision with another "Scroll of Cure Lt. Wounds" (5hp). It is useful, sought after, and is an item that will easily recirculate into the 'economy' through trading with NPC's in the inn. (Edited for clarity: That is to say, DM's can turn in consumables, like the Scroll of CLW, to tavern NPC's to barter with PCs)

Awesome thread! I'm glad Jeff started it - there's a lot more ideas about gameplay and treasure balance than merely the removal of the DarkVision token.

I hope people don't mind if I share some of my insights/ideas on the topic. (I've been involved in a local LARP variant called a "DungeonQuest" for over a decade, and have a lot of experience with the way treasure can change a game... in good ways and bad.)

#1: Banned items = Bad
It may make things simpler for the DMs to have fewer complicated items to deal with, but try explaining that to someone who just (hypothetcically) traded away their +1 Dagger for a Potion of Darkvision and discovers that DarkVision is banned on this adventure!
If you want to limit stuff, it's better to Use an Equipment Max (Example: Limit of 10 items per person) and let people decide what's really important to bring.

#2: Self-Explanatory items = Good
While it's tres cool to have lots of wacky magical items floating around, the best items are ones which everyone understands the function of. Examples: +1 weapons make sense to everyone (or anyone who's played D&D at least). The Elixir of Life has its powers explained right on the token. Rope is... well, rope! That's a lot better than a mysterious "Cloak of Displacement" or "Ring of Confusion".
This is even more important in games with multiple DMs.

#3: Magic Bonuses should be used with CAUTION
Because if ya start putting out +2 or +3 weapons, sooner or later you will run across a group who is completely decked out with every single member AC'd to their max, and dealing tons of damage, and the adventure just isn't a challenge for them... and then you're faced with the conundrum of how to make it more challenging (Ultra-Hardcore?)
It's better to make people choose between multiple cool items, than make "improved" version of items. Example: Do I wear the Bracers of Defense? Or the Bracers of Archery? Or the Bracers of Strength?

#4: Items don't need in-game effects to be Cool.
Some of the most popular items our games have seen were mere collector's items, like the "Boots of Coolness" or the "Fashionable Headgear" - absolutely no value, so they don't unbalance the game... and yet people love to have 'em to show off.
These items are best given out as rewards, though... like something you might find in a hidden alcove, or take from a fallen enemy. I suspect that people would be very disappointed to find "Sparkly Ring" as a Very Rare token in their bag, when they could have had "Gauntlets of Ogre Power"... but give that same ring out as a reward for solving HardCore Dungeon, and people will show it off like it's made of solid gold.

- - -

All that said, here's my suggestions for the next run of tokens...

- I agree that exchanging Darkvision for another token-already-in-print is probably best. So far, chainmail seems the best choice to me.

- More cool items specific to character classes. Make 'em things that don't need to be tracked through the dungeon, though (Ring of Wizardry as suggested earlier is awesome, but a challenge to enforce. Mage Robes (for AC) would be a better choice. I also love the Holy Symbol and the Ranger Bow!! )

- Think carefully about what token (if any) to give out for groups that survive the HardCore Dungeon. Personally, I'd LOVE to see a +2 weapon! But equally, I'd HATE to be in a vicious arguement with party members about who gets to keep it. Even if the weapon is best suited to the fighter in the group, it doesn't mean the fighter should get it... what if I wanna be the fighter next adventure. What if his friend wants to trade it on the forums for something cool? What if...? I see a lot of bad blood potentially arising out of this... enough to turn a cool 2 hour game into a bad weekend for everyone. Unless, of course, you give out that special item (or a choice from several items?!?) to EVERYONE who survived.

- For future years, make more cool tokens, so us addicts can fill TD's coffers in our pursuit of those new Very Rares! But make 'em versions of stuff thats already out there... like new cloaks, or different bracers, or more boots, so people have to think carefully about choices instead of saying "one of those and one of those and one of those... now what will I wear on my left thumb?"

- Keep being a Token Geek, Jeff! We love ya!