TOPIC: PART ONE: Possible New $8k Super Condensed Option? Trade 2 Option

Jeff G wrote:

jadziadax8 wrote: I'm concerned about the decrease in Minotaur Hide and Dwarven Steel, since we no longer get token packs in VTD. You can make DP, MS, and PS without commons but cannot do so for DS and MH. I'm also predicting a future shortage of Enchanter's Munitions.

Is the replacement of token packs with trade goods confirmed to continue in 2027? I thought both that change and putting older tokens in the treasure mix were implemented to address a shortfall in 2026 tokens due to tariff uncertainty. Has there been an announcement on 2027 VTD token packs and treasure mix?

I await an answer to this question as well. It affects which condensed option I would choose (or choosing uncondensed).

jadziadax8 wrote: I'm concerned about the decrease in Minotaur Hide and Dwarven Steel, since we no longer get token packs in VTD. You can make DP, MS, and PS without commons but cannot do so for DS and MH. I'm also predicting a future shortage of Enchanter's Munitions.

Good point. We talked about this. We are guessing that the popularity of the Condensed Treasure option with VTD adventures will boost these numbers. Those tokens appear regularly in CT, and since they don't require transmutation they represent a bigger boost to supply.

EDIT: ALSO, we are continuing the "1 Trade token" per VTD adventure, so that should boost these numbers.

Impy wrote: I very much support the spirit of this idea, however balancing a 8K order off of secondary market prices of tokens feels like it could get TDHQ in a odd precedent. If a rebalancing is needed perhaps we can do this in a identical way by adding a new transmutes like the treasure maps

One for each of the trade 2s. Make it like a skull of Battarak

For example
Pure Eleven Bismuth Ingot
Worth 5x Elven Bismuth
Receipe 1
Some amount of TG1

Receipe 2
Some smaller amount of TG2

Valid for two years (or forever I can't say I care but leaving room to readjust is always nice)

---

I like the goal of this idea, I'm not gonna complain if it goes though as it is. It just worries me a bit in setting community expectations in a odd way. It feels like it could be a monkeys paw for you all down the line

Oh, crud. I forgot to mention that this option will be a "once in at least five years" option, and it will absolutely not be repeated, if ever, until 2031. We are going to try it for one year...so hopefully it will not have too many unforeseen issues.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Kusig wrote: Would be great to switch some of that AG to Oil instead

We did look into all kinds of trade-offs, but the high value of Oil of Enchantment, dropping AG, DP and MS more would not offset the increase in total value for this option. The list shown here is the best we could do given all factors.

What's the goal? Is it to keep the prices where they are or reduce them? If we want to increase the number of OE and EB in circulation it will reduce prices. How long until the value of the trade 2 option becomes a negative? I would suggest scaling it for the intended goal rather than current secondary prices.

Another thing to consider would be allowing us to transmute URs into 2x EB or OE. Or some form of TG1 to TG2 transmute.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Kusig wrote: Would be great to switch some of that AG to Oil instead

We did look into all kinds of trade-offs, but the high value of Oil of Enchantment, dropping AG, DP and MS more would not offset the increase in total value for this option. The list shown here is the best we could do given all factors.

Jeff, it might be OK to just up the Oil of Enchantment up to 20 without dropping anything down. Even though the prices wouldn't balance at this moment in time, once people started using this option the price of Elven Bismuth and Oil of Enchantment would likely drop significantly (which is needed) and some Tier 1 prices would likely go up some, which would probably more than balance things out.

Jeff G wrote:

jadziadax8 wrote: I'm concerned about the decrease in Minotaur Hide and Dwarven Steel, since we no longer get token packs in VTD. You can make DP, MS, and PS without commons but cannot do so for DS and MH. I'm also predicting a future shortage of Enchanter's Munitions.

Is the replacement of token packs with trade goods confirmed to continue in 2027? I thought both that change and putting older tokens in the treasure mix were implemented to address a shortfall in 2026 tokens due to tariff uncertainty. Has there been an announcement on 2027 VTD token packs and treasure mix?

We will issue an exact statement next week, but 2027 should be much like this:

+ All 2027 in-person events will hand out 2027 10-packs to players at start.

+ Our random treasure chests will mostly contain 2027 tokens. However, due to the feedback from some players who like earlier year tokens, we will have a limited number of those tokens substituted for like rarity. Thus, there is maybe a 10% chance you'd get a 2015 Rare instead of a 2027 Rare in a random treasure draw.

+ We will continue to offer Condensed Treasure packs with VTD adventures, but these will be updated to 2027 tokens and max treasure (looking at you Bead of Need).

+ Like 2026, all VTD players earn a random Trade 1 token instead of a random 10-pack with each adventure.

I thought that Condensed was going to stay at 10 Condensed for every 27 pulls, so max treasure would get you 1 condensed pack and 3 treasure pulls.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Impy wrote: I very much support the spirit of this idea, however balancing a 8K order off of secondary market prices of tokens feels like it could get TDHQ in a odd precedent. If a rebalancing is needed perhaps we can do this in a identical way by adding a new transmutes like the treasure maps

One for each of the trade 2s. Make it like a skull of Battarak

For example
Pure Eleven Bismuth Ingot
Worth 5x Elven Bismuth
Receipe 1
Some amount of TG1

Receipe 2
Some smaller amount of TG2

Valid for two years (or forever I can't say I care but leaving room to readjust is always nice)

---

I like the goal of this idea, I'm not gonna complain if it goes though as it is. It just worries me a bit in setting community expectations in a odd way. It feels like it could be a monkeys paw for you all down the line

Oh, crud. I forgot to mention that this option will be a "once in at least five years" option, and it will absolutely not be repeated, if ever, until 2031. We are going to try it for one year...so hopefully it will not have too many unforeseen issues.

Jeff, I think it's a great idea to say that this is just a one year trial to see how it works out, but I'm not sure you want to box yourself into a corner by saying it won't be repeated until 2031 or later. What if you find out that it works great, and that it is needed again in two or three years to rebalance again? I'd recommend just saying it is just a one year trial, but don't lock yourself out of doing it again (or some other balancing method) if needed.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Jeff G wrote:

jadziadax8 wrote: I'm concerned about the decrease in Minotaur Hide and Dwarven Steel, since we no longer get token packs in VTD. You can make DP, MS, and PS without commons but cannot do so for DS and MH. I'm also predicting a future shortage of Enchanter's Munitions.

Is the replacement of token packs with trade goods confirmed to continue in 2027? I thought both that change and putting older tokens in the treasure mix were implemented to address a shortfall in 2026 tokens due to tariff uncertainty. Has there been an announcement on 2027 VTD token packs and treasure mix?

We will issue an exact statement next week, but 2027 should be much like this:

+ All 2027 in-person events will hand out 2027 10-packs to players at start.

+ Our random treasure chests will mostly contain 2027 tokens. However, due to the feedback from some players who like earlier year tokens, we will have a limited number of those tokens substituted for like rarity. Thus, there is maybe a 10% chance you'd get a 2015 Rare instead of a 2027 Rare in a random treasure draw.

+ We will continue to offer Condensed Treasure packs with VTD adventures, but these will be updated to 2027 tokens and max treasure (looking at you Bead of Need).

+ Like 2026, all VTD players earn a random Trade 1 token instead of a random 10-pack with each adventure.

Jeff, I'm glad you are continuing to put older tokens in the treasure boxes, I think it's great for players to sometimes get a neat out of print token.

Ben Krupa wrote: I thought that Condensed was going to stay at 10 Condensed for every 27 pulls, so max treasure would get you 1 condensed pack and 3 treasure pulls.

I could be wrong, but since max treasure is going up to 29 in 2027, I was thinking we would re-figure Condensed treasure while keeping 10 random tokens in a Condensed Treasure Pack. This means the treasure will be slightly more rich than 2026.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Ben Krupa wrote: I thought that Condensed was going to stay at 10 Condensed for every 27 pulls, so max treasure would get you 1 condensed pack and 3 treasure pulls.

I could be wrong, but since max treasure is going up to 29 in 2027, I was thinking we would re-figure Condensed treasure while keeping 10 random tokens in a Condensed Treasure Pack. This means the treasure will be slightly more rich than 2026.

You made a reference in the post about Coin of Wealth and Bead of Need in the Gamehole transmute thread regarding VTD and condensed for Nov and Dec. This may have been confused as that's how it would be going forward instead of just those two months. A clarification there would easily be able to fix the confusion. The question for 2027 would be is CoW in the calculations for max treasure when it comes to condensed and it sounds like the answer is no.