TOPIC: Updated Powers for Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace - V2

AlanP wrote: Interesting update! I missed the L&L thread, but I guess in my head I was hoping for an eventual party buff update from either the druid or the bard... something like:
Earth - erects earthen bulwark for the party, granting all characters +2 AC and DR 2 (melee)
Air - commands swirling vortexes, granting all characters +2 reflex saves and DR 2 (ranged)
etc

The changes are pretty good, though I do echo that +10 damage is really high. I get it, legendary should feel legendary but this is a bigger bonus than the mythic token which takes WAY more components to build. Perhaps +10 to first strike only?

The +10 damage seems in line with other Legendary Neck Slot tokens. Bog’s Medallion of Berserking gives +10 Damage, in addition to +1 Rage and Fury x2. Ralson’s Pendant of the Elder Yew gives +9 Damage, in addition to +5 Constitution, scroll reading and Animal Friend. Ashenne’s Arch-Mage Medallion gives huge damage increases via the various powers. Many of them have extremely powerful non-damage abilities as well.

Mike Steele wrote:

AlanP wrote: Interesting update! I missed the L&L thread, but I guess in my head I was hoping for an eventual party buff update from either the druid or the bard... something like:
Earth - erects earthen bulwark for the party, granting all characters +2 AC and DR 2 (melee)
Air - commands swirling vortexes, granting all characters +2 reflex saves and DR 2 (ranged)
etc

The changes are pretty good, though I do echo that +10 damage is really high. I get it, legendary should feel legendary but this is a bigger bonus than the mythic token which takes WAY more components to build. Perhaps +10 to first strike only?

The +10 damage seems in line with other Legendary Neck Slot tokens. Bog’s Medallion of Berserking gives +10 Damage, in addition to +1 Rage and Fury x2. Ralson’s Pendant of the Elder Yew gives +9 Damage, in addition to +5 Constitution, scroll reading and Animal Friend. Ashenne’s Arch-Mage Medallion gives huge damage increases via the various powers. Many of them have extremely powerful non-damage abilities as well.

Correct on Bog's but you have to use a 2 handed mele weapon. And the Ranger neck is +9 only for Ranged. Plus neither of those additional damage bonuses are "magical" like elemental damage.

Being that the Druid is a hybrid class, I don't think it has to be on par with the other classes for damage. Or on par with the Cleric for healing. It's fun playing a Druid because you can deal decent damage, assist with healing, AND you get to Polymorph into different creatures that allow for some neat in dungeon role-play which is super cool.

Mike Steele wrote:

AlanP wrote: Interesting update! I missed the L&L thread, but I guess in my head I was hoping for an eventual party buff update from either the druid or the bard... something like:
Earth - erects earthen bulwark for the party, granting all characters +2 AC and DR 2 (melee)
Air - commands swirling vortexes, granting all characters +2 reflex saves and DR 2 (ranged)
etc

The changes are pretty good, though I do echo that +10 damage is really high. I get it, legendary should feel legendary but this is a bigger bonus than the mythic token which takes WAY more components to build. Perhaps +10 to first strike only?

The +10 damage seems in line with other Legendary Neck Slot tokens. Bog’s Medallion of Berserking gives +10 Damage, in addition to +1 Rage and Fury x2. Ralson’s Pendant of the Elder Yew gives +9 Damage, in addition to +5 Constitution, scroll reading and Animal Friend. Ashenne’s Arch-Mage Medallion gives huge damage increases via the various powers. Many of them have extremely powerful non-damage abilities as well.

Note that Iktomi's is already, what, the 3rd highest damage wheel in the game AND it gets +5 damage from Drue's baton. adding another +10 damage on top of that gives it, effectively, a damage wheel of 21-22-23-27-30-33. Druid already deals enough damage, it doesn't need a shape that deals even more.

Mike Steele wrote:

AlanP wrote: Interesting update! I missed the L&L thread, but I guess in my head I was hoping for an eventual party buff update from either the druid or the bard... something like:
Earth - erects earthen bulwark for the party, granting all characters +2 AC and DR 2 (melee)
Air - commands swirling vortexes, granting all characters +2 reflex saves and DR 2 (ranged)
etc

The changes are pretty good, though I do echo that +10 damage is really high. I get it, legendary should feel legendary but this is a bigger bonus than the mythic token which takes WAY more components to build. Perhaps +10 to first strike only?

The +10 damage seems in line with other Legendary Neck Slot tokens. Bog’s Medallion of Berserking gives +10 Damage, in addition to +1 Rage and Fury x2. Ralson’s Pendant of the Elder Yew gives +9 Damage, in addition to +5 Constitution, scroll reading and Animal Friend. Ashenne’s Arch-Mage Medallion gives huge damage increases via the various powers. Many of them have extremely powerful non-damage abilities as well.

From a legendary item perspective I agree that there is ample budget to include the +damage. I think the complication is the desire to keep the bonuses consistent at the relic level, which makes things more limiting. This makes things like "guided strike" maybe better for the earth elemental.

As an aside I would prefer that the +damage for a druid comes from matching damage types for the fight against vulnerabilities the monsters have (and the synergy this has with bard clues), which is why I am excited to see the multiple shapes per room change. I like this game play better than just picking the earth elemental when I want to do more damage.

I am just glad they kept the elemental powers the same on the relic and legendary to make memorization easier for DMs. I’m not going to pretend to be paying attention to the power level

I love having distinct thematic abilities for the four elemental types -- especially "splash" damage for Water and retribution for Fire!

IMHO:

- the +damage for Earth is strong but kinda boring; I would prefer to replace this with something situationally awesome like guided strike or immune to monster retribution as others have suggested.

- while Change #1 slightly improves the incremental benefit of legendary over relic, it's still very small.

Proposal: I think legendary Iktomi's should remove the restriction altogether and just let you polymorph as much as you want into as many different creature types as you want. I'm a bear! I'm a shark! I'm a fire elemental! I'm an earth elemental! I'm a shark again!

Primarily I want this because it's fun. It does also add power by enabling the player to use one form for offense and a different form for defense (thus actually taking advantage of the DR), but I think that's desirable and appropriate for a legendary.

Alternatively, if you feel that's too much, Iktomi's allowing polymorph 1x/round with no restriction on types would still be better for fun and flexibility than merely 2x/room. But I'd much rather have 2x/round.

(my perspective: I main Cleric, Druid, and Bard in that order. I have crafted Druegar's and Widseth's, but only the relic Druid necklace because the difference from relic to legendary is so underwhelming. So far based on the V2 updates, that's not likely to change for me.)

David Zych wrote: I love having distinct thematic abilities for the four elemental types -- especially "splash" damage for Water and retribution for Fire!

IMHO:

- the +damage for Earth is strong but kinda boring; I would prefer to replace this with something situationally awesome like guided strike or immune to monster retribution as others have suggested.

- while Change #1 slightly improves the incremental benefit of legendary over relic, it's still very small.

Proposal: I think legendary Iktomi's should remove the restriction altogether and just let you polymorph as much as you want into as many different creature types as you want. I'm a bear! I'm a shark! I'm a fire elemental! I'm an earth elemental! I'm a shark again!

Primarily I want this because it's fun. It does also add power by enabling the player to use one form for offense and a different form for defense (thus actually taking advantage of the DR), but I think that's desirable and appropriate for a legendary.

Alternatively, if you feel that's too much, Iktomi's allowing polymorph 1x/round with no restriction on types would still be better for fun and flexibility than merely 2x/room. But I'd much rather have 2x/round.

(my perspective: I main Cleric, Druid, and Bard in that order. I have crafted Druegar's and Widseth's, but only the relic Druid necklace because the difference from relic to legendary is so underwhelming. So far based on the V2 updates, that's not likely to change for me.)

David, I'm with you, I'd love to see the Legendary (and only the Legendary) have no restrictions on the number of forms you can change into. I don't think it would be unbalancing, but would be a ton of fun.

If it is restricted to two forms, it would be nice if you still retain the Relic ability to transform in and out unlimited times so you could read scrolls. If you could do that, but have the restriction that once you transform to a second form you couldn't switch back to the first form in that room, you'd still be able to unpolymorph, read a scroll, and then polymorph back.

My proposed wording would be:

Relic - One may not polymorph into more than one creature (nor into different elemental sub-types) per room, but transforming into and out of the same creature more than once per room is allowed–assuming one has the means to do so.

Legendary - One may polymorph into up to two creatures (or into different elemental sub-types) per room, but once you polymorph into the second creature or elemental sub-type you cannot polymorph back into the first creature or elemental sub-type in that room. Transforming into and out of the same creature more than once per room is allowed–assuming one has the means to do so.