TOPIC: Clarifications on Hat of the Humble Servant?

A recent discussion on Discord raised up some questions about how exactly Hat of the Humble Servant works. It seems different from other tokens that affect Lay on Hands in that it explicitly adds to the Lay on Hands pool rather than providing a one-time bonus to a single use of Lay on Hands.

Some questions that this raises:
- How should this be tracked in Physical (non-Virtual) True Dungeon? Is this just on the honor system of the player? Or should DMs do something different to help distinguish the additional pool?
- Should the apps in Virtual True Dungeon be updated to account for the additional 8 points?
- Does the Cleric Restore Power ability also restore the additional 8 points from Hat of the Humble Servant?
- Should +3 Holy Avenger and/or Ava's +5 Holy Avenger be in consideration for an update/retcon to match the functionality of the lower-rarity token? Or should Hat of the Humble Servant receive a retcon to match the function of other tokens that affect Lay on Hands?

Thank you!

Bump

Marc D wrote: A recent discussion on Discord raised up some questions about how exactly Hat of the Humble Servant works. It seems different from other tokens that affect Lay on Hands in that it explicitly adds to the Lay on Hands pool rather than providing a one-time bonus to a single use of Lay on Hands.

Some questions that this raises:
- How should this be tracked in Physical (non-Virtual) True Dungeon? Is this just on the honor system of the player? Or should DMs do something different to help distinguish the additional pool?
- Should the apps in Virtual True Dungeon be updated to account for the additional 8 points?
- Does the Cleric Restore Power ability also restore the additional 8 points from Hat of the Humble Servant?
- Should +3 Holy Avenger and/or Ava's +5 Holy Avenger be in consideration for an update/retcon to match the functionality of the lower-rarity token? Or should Hat of the Humble Servant receive a retcon to match the function of other tokens that affect Lay on Hands?

Thank you!

I don't consider this to be unreasonably powerful. It increases the max pool by 8, not per use. It also doesn't mean any changes need to be made to the Holy Avengers - the extra healing pool is an add-on ability, not a primary ability. 8 extra hp (even if used twice) is akin to a potion while occupying the very valuable head slot. Using this means sacrificing one of the following: AC, Redoubt Set bonuses, Charm Crown saves bonuses, Cook's hat's +1 level, Cranston's +2 to ranged damage AND extra eye slot, crown of expertise, or crown of might. It's clearly not in the UR level of power as I can't imagine people trading it out for any of those.

As written, restore would restore the entirety of the healing pool including any and all items that impact that including the hat. It doesn't allow for any token that is explicitly saying 1/game to be used more than 1/game as restore must work on a class power that has limited uses specified on the player card.

Fred

Fred K wrote:

Marc D wrote: A recent discussion on Discord raised up some questions about how exactly Hat of the Humble Servant works. It seems different from other tokens that affect Lay on Hands in that it explicitly adds to the Lay on Hands pool rather than providing a one-time bonus to a single use of Lay on Hands.

Some questions that this raises:
- How should this be tracked in Physical (non-Virtual) True Dungeon? Is this just on the honor system of the player? Or should DMs do something different to help distinguish the additional pool?
- Should the apps in Virtual True Dungeon be updated to account for the additional 8 points?
- Does the Cleric Restore Power ability also restore the additional 8 points from Hat of the Humble Servant?
- Should +3 Holy Avenger and/or Ava's +5 Holy Avenger be in consideration for an update/retcon to match the functionality of the lower-rarity token? Or should Hat of the Humble Servant receive a retcon to match the function of other tokens that affect Lay on Hands?

Thank you!

I don't consider this to be unreasonably powerful. It increases the max pool by 8, not per use. It also doesn't mean any changes need to be made to the Holy Avengers - the extra healing pool is an add-on ability, not a primary ability. 8 extra hp (even if used twice) is akin to a potion while occupying the very valuable head slot. Using this means sacrificing one of the following: AC, Redoubt Set bonuses, Charm Crown saves bonuses, Cook's hat's +1 level, Cranston's +2 to ranged damage AND extra eye slot, crown of expertise, or crown of might. It's clearly not in the UR level of power as I can't imagine people trading it out for any of those.

As written, restore would restore the entirety of the healing pool including any and all items that impact that including the hat. It doesn't allow for any token that is explicitly saying 1/game to be used more than 1/game as restore must work on a class power that has limited uses specified on the player card.

Fred

Wasn't suggesting this was UR level of power. Rather, the effect of the hat are just inconsistent with other LoH tokens, including the Relic and Legendary so not sure how it's handled.

I'm mostly concerned about the logistics of this in PTD, as it's not a 1/game effect, but rather a full-dungeon effect in that you can use the LoH pool for 1 point here, 1 point there, etc. Generally the DM marks off LoH boxes on the character card, but that's not an option with this added pool. The other tokens provide a one-time bonus and avoid the need to track.

I see it as just adding 8 boxes to your card. They get used up like the base ones you have, and if the power gets restored, you'd get those 8 extra boxes again?

I would assume they could track just above or below a row until 8 approximate boxes are used. 10 would reasonably do this also. 15,18, or 23 extra would be unreasonable imo.

I don’t play pali, so chunk of salt on my opinions.

Marc D wrote: Hat of the Humble Servant [...] seems different from other tokens that affect Lay on Hands in that it explicitly adds to the Lay on Hands pool rather than providing a one-time bonus to a single use of Lay on Hands.

Correct. It is deliberately different from other LoH-affecting tokens.

Marc D wrote: How should this be tracked in Physical (non-Virtual) True Dungeon?

Looking at the class cards, there appears to be enough room for a DM to mark eight dots on the sides of the pre-printed LoH boxes.

Marc D wrote: Should the apps in Virtual True Dungeon be updated to account for the additional 8 points?

Properly tracking their LoH uses will be up to the honor of the person playing the paladin. Hopefully someone role-playing a lawful good character can be trusted to not cheat. 🤷‍♂️

Marc D wrote: Does the Cleric Restore Power ability also restore the additional 8 points from Hat of the Humble Servant?

Great question! The TDb entry for Hat of the Humble Servant now includes this:
Once the extra 8 points of healing afforded by this hat are used, they are gone for the rest of the game. If restore power is used on a paladin wearing this hat, only the base 12 (or 15 for a 5th-level paladin) healing points are restored.

Marc D wrote: Should +3 Holy Avenger and/or Ava's +5 Holy Avenger be in consideration for an update/retcon to match the functionality of the lower-rarity token? Or should Hat of the Humble Servant receive a retcon to match the function of other tokens that affect Lay on Hands?

In time, if these abilities prove to be problematic, we can make adjustments. As things stand now, we are comfortable with those tokens are they are currently written.

Thank you very much as always!