TOPIC: Crit/Sneak & 50% Miss-Chance

Whether or not you rolled/slid well, there is a 50% chance of missing when you attack an Incorporeal creature. There are tokens which can bypass this 50% miss-chance .

Even when you roll/slide a natural 20, some creatures are immune to being critted/sneak attacked. There are tokens which can negate their crit/sneak immunity .

Please bear in mind, overcoming one of those restrictions does not automatically overcome the other. E.g., if fighting a monster that is both Undead and Incorporeal, wearing a Bead Whole Vision guarantees a nat 20 is a hit, but does not score a crit. Conversely, wearing Bracers of Guided Strike allows you to crit/sneak the monster, but only if you get lucky on the coin-flip to determine whether or not your attack actually hits. You need to have both of those items (or ones which duplicate their effects) for your natural 20 to automatically hit and critically hit/sneak attack it.

As long as you brought this up the 50% Miss Chance doesn't apply to AOE's, correct? I know in some games it would not (some games TD is based on), but that doesn't mean that is how it works for TD, so just a confirmation that it does work that way, that I think most of us assumes it does. Sorry if this is in the DM guide or Player Handbook already and I just missed it.

EDIT: There is something in the DM about incorporeal but it doesn't say anything about AOE's. So maybe my assumption is incorrect.
Incorporeal: attacks (physical & magical) have a
50% miss chance—even if it was a natural 20.
Ghost Touched weapons always bypass this
restriction. Similarly, Eldritch and Force effects
do not suffer the 50% miss chance, but that only
applies if all of the damage from the attack is
comprised of Force/Eldritch. If only part of the
damage is Force/Eldritch, the 50% miss check
must be made. E.g., HORN OF BLASTING and
MAGIC MISSILE both deal 100% Force damage
and therefore bypass the 50% miss chance vs.
incorporeals. However, a blunder weapon firing
an EXPLOSIVE BLUNDER SLUG deals both Blunt
and Force damage, therefore it must still succeed
on the 50% miss check to deal damage to an
incorporeal.
As of 2018, there are no attacks that deal 100%
Eldritch damage. Unless that changes, all
Eldritch-imbued attacks vs. incorporeals are
subject to the 50% miss check.
Note: When making an attack against an
incorporeal, having a Ghost Touched weapon or
utilizing 100% Eldritch/Force damage does not
guarantee a successful hit. This is how the
procedure works:
1. Player slides
2. DM determines if slide hits monster’s AC
3. If slide misses, no damage is dealt—don’t
go to step 4
4. If the slide hit’s monster’s AC either:
o Perform the 50% miss check to determine
if damage is dealt
o If the attack was a Ghost Touched
weapon attack or a 100% Eldritch/Force
effect, no miss chance check is made—
deal damage

The Incorporeal miss-chance only applies to attacks which require a slide/roll. Are there any AoEs that require a slide?

Druegar wrote: The Incorporeal miss-chance only applies to attacks which require a slide/roll. Are there any AoEs that require a slide?

Okay I missed that it only apply to rolls/slides. It just says attacks physical & magical. Cool and thank you as always.

So the Bard's Sonic dart would not have the 50% miss because it doesn't require a slide/roll, but it is not AOE nor is Eldritch or Force damage?

Druegar wrote: The Incorporeal miss-chance only applies to attacks which require a slide/roll. Are there any AoEs that require a slide?

This would be a change from my current understanding, which is - any single target attack (physical or magical) has a miss-chance against an incorporeal monster. Magic Missile was the only exception I was aware of due to the nature of the spell. AoE attacks are obvious different from single target attacks.

So are all undead immune to crits?

David Harris wrote: So are all undead immune to crits?

Yes and sneak attacks.

David Harris wrote: So are all undead immune to crits?

from the PHB (emphasis added):
Critical Hit (Crit): When your attack slide lands on the 20 spot, you not only automatically hit (regardless of the target’s AC), you may also score a critical hit and deal double damage. Other than bonus damage from a sneak attack, all damage gets doubled on a crit. Some weapons or effects (keen for slashing and piercing, smiting for blunt) can extend the crit range to 19–20 or even 17–20. Some monsters are immune to crits, including (but not limited to) creatures without a vital anatomy, Constructs, incorporeal creatures, Oozes, Plants, and Undead. If a monster attacks a player and the DM rolls a 20, it’s a guaranteed hit, but never a crit because monsters don’t crit players in TD.

Sneak Attack: Rogues have the ability to slink around a monster during combat and set themselves up to perform a special melee attack which targets the monster’s vital areas. Monsters without vital anatomy (examples include Constructs, incorporeal creatures, Oozes, Plants, and Undead) or monsters that cannot be surprised cannot be sneak attacked.

Thank you guess I could have just looked it up...my apologies.

Dave wrote:

Druegar wrote: The Incorporeal miss-chance only applies to attacks which require a slide/roll. Are there any AoEs that require a slide?

This would be a change from my current understanding, which is - any single target attack (physical or magical) has a miss-chance against an incorporeal monster. Magic Missile was the only exception I was aware of due to the nature of the spell. AoE attacks are obvious different from single target attacks.

Yeah that is what I thought as well.....well and Spritual Hammer because it does Force damage.

David Harris wrote: Thank you guess I could have just looked it up...my apologies.

Save your apology for when you've done something wrong because that's not the case here.

When I quote stuff like that, it's not to rub it in anyone's face, it's to show evidence for my claim. Instead of me saying, "Everyone should just believe whatever I say" I like to show why you should believe what I'm saying. We all make mistakes or remember things incorrectly.

Providing proof of one's claim is also a self-check. When someone asks a question that I think has already been answered, I'll look it up to see if my recollection is accurate. More times than I care to admit, it turns out the question had not been answered at all, was only partially answered, or is nebulous.

In this specific case, in addition to the aforementioned points, I wanted to give you a fuller picture. Specifically:

• It's not just Undead that are immune to crits, a bunch of other types of monsters are as well.
• Anything immune to crits is also immune to being sneak attacked.

I thought that information might be useful to you and anyone else who reads this thread.

Thanks Druegar! I appreciate you being proactive and thorough.

Follow-on question.
From tokendb:
Fury: Whether raging or not, as an Instant Action a barbarian can announce that they are going to fury before making their attack slide. If they hit, the damage done with that one slide is treated as a standard 2× critical hit. It does not count as a natural 20, it’s “just” a crit. That said, a fury-fueled attack that actually lands on the 20 spot still counts as a natural 20 and can trigger effects which require a natural 20.

So does that mean Fury doesn't work on creatures with crit immunity or it's like a crit in that it does double damage, but not actually a crit? Sounds like the former, but worth asking just to be sure.