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TOPIC: How much is to much for combat DMs?

How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #1

I’ve been asked by members of my party, but since I have never been a DM, I have no idea what the answer is.

How many effects can be in play before a DM will have a hard time keeping up?

Let’s say this happens:
Party is given a buff round so we have:

Bard uses lute of free fury, does a lore check, and uses shield of the scholar to use a Odin’s blessing scroll.

Paladin guards the wizard and Elf wizard

Wizard casts bull strength on the monk

Elf wizard casts cats grace on the ranger

Cleric uses a ring of spell storing to cast prayer and bless

Barbarian uses greater rage

What is the likelihood this is all going to be correctly accounted for? If this isn’t to much, how much further can we go? Paladin has rod of might, monk has Cestus of sundering, cleric casts guidance on the rogue, rogue sneak attacks with ranged attack due to new glasses, etc

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Last edit: by Endgame.

How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #2

I don't have an answer to your specific question, but I do have my observations...

For the past several years, I've seen most combat DMs write +hit/+dam bonuses on the board, with one number for party as a whole and then often a separate number for bonuses that only apply to one character. And the same usually happens for penalties to monster AC as well Many of your actions boil down to affecting one of those numbers, leaving the Guarding, bonus to Ranger AC, and maybe something I overlooked in your list.

Also, the rooms you're most likely to go that extreme on are likely also the combat DMs with the most experience at juggling all those things.

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How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #3

The scenario you describe isn't a problem for a good DM, but for a new DM yes they wouldn't be able to keep track of all that.

However, all DMs make mistakes once in a while. If you throw that much at them it would increase the chances of a mistake, in my opinion. Given that you are probably in a serious combat I would suggest not worrying about the occasional mistake as it would take too much time. Give it all you've got and most of the time a good DM will have it covered.
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How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #4

Kirk Bauer wrote: The scenario you describe isn't a problem for a good DM, but for a new DM yes they wouldn't be able to keep track of all that.

However, all DMs make mistakes once in a while. If you throw that much at them it would increase the chances of a mistake, in my opinion. Given that you are probably in a serious combat I would suggest not worrying about the occasional mistake as it would take too much time. Give it all you've got and most of the time a good DM will have it covered.

Yep - we don’t plan on worrying about it, but since our group continues to grow we are getting more control over the number of effects and we would like to stay at a manageable amount.

One of the concerns is that there have been reports of combat DMs not using ranged stats for ranged characters, such as a ranger. If just having some players use missile attacks as a primary attack type is challenging, we absolutely don’t want to add effects like potions or the sundering Cestus. We will stick with just bard song / prayer / bless. If on the other hand, 10 effects is about the limit, we might look around to see what else we can do.

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How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #5

Yeah the hammers didn't make it any easier to realize who is using ranged as their primary.

Effects that apply to the whole party, especially to hit bonuses, are the easiest. So bardsong, bless, prayer, etc.

If it's room 7 and I'm the DM I will also take the liberty to write on the party card, so tracking character specific changes to AC or damage is still super easy.
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How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #6

The Ranger in my party is a ranged Ranger (current melee to hit 1, ranged to hit 14). Highlighting her ranged stats on the party card (with a highlighter I bring to the coaching room) has worked out pretty well for us. She's using a bow, so you'd think it would be obvious, but we highlight the party card just in case. We're trying to make it one less thing the DM needs to ask/think about, especially since our Rogue, Wizard, and Druid might be doing all kinds of weird stuff.

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How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #7

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It isn't to bad, full party bonuses aren't that bad, keeping track of bonuses on one char start getting hard especially with multiple combat tables.

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How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #8

I've been a combat DM for a couple of years now and I can say that I do not have a hard time keeping up with all the bonuses, the majority of the time. It only gets difficult when you start to stack individual bonuses for all the players. I always write all the bonuses on the combat board. Keeping the group bonus written together and the individual player bonuses separate. So it only becomes a problem when you have large stacked bonuses for the whole party and each player has an additional bonus from a potion or other effect.

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How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #9

I think it is perfectly reasonable able to rwmindthe DM of things such as

"Ranger is ranged"
"Did you add favored enemy bonus?"
"Dont forget the monster has -2 to AC"

Once per room.

Also, if you know your bonuses and those of a companion, you have some idea of how close to them you need to be to hit. If they hit and you miss, a gentle reminder can be helpful.

DMs know what players know, time is the enemy. The more time the DM takes determining hit or miss, etc, the fewer rounds of combat.

Also, in a dark room, it isnt necessarily easy to notice the weapon type.

As for the hammer, ugh, yes, compound weapons do no one any favors.
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How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #10

I don't know if it's too much of a corner case, but I'm surprised that weapon modes aren't marked on the token.

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How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #11

Brokkr wrote: I don't know if it's too much of a corner case, but I'm surprised that weapon modes aren't marked on the token.


Most weapons (bows, two-handed swords) are obviously one or the other. A few combo weapons (dirks/daggers, spear-like weapons, small/hand axes, things with “throwing” in their name) go both ways.

So if a DM used melee stats for a bow, they aren’t paying attention, so they’d make the same mistake if the word “ranged” was printed on it, and “combo” wont help them sort out whether you’re swinging or throwing your axe. You have to tell them.

The “problem” I think is that the vast majority of players stack STR and fight melee, so that’s the column DMs are in the habit of using. Maybe just assume that, if you’re using ranged, it’s up to you to help out the DM. Highlighter, little post-its, a word as you’re sliding, whatever. Practice makes perfect, but most DMs want to do a great job but run combats for fewer than ten days a year. They’re going to make mistakes because they simply don’t get enough practice.

So try not to get frustrated with them. Just help them out a little.

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Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.

How much is to much for combat DMs? 4 years 3 months ago #12

When playing a polymorph druid I often find the DM using my melee damage bonus instead of the polymorph damage... especially when they say out loud that I did less than my polymorph damage bonus. So as someone mentioned above, I will generally once remind them I am polymorphed. I have had coaches circle it before or draw big arrows pointing to it.

The next time the party card is updated, the first column should be for Primary Attack and the second column should be for Secondary Attack (with a symbol to circle indicating the type). That would make it slightly more difficult for coaches, but much easier for combat DM's. Then only in rooms where the is no ranged or only ranged would the DM have to check which box to use.

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