TOPIC: Bog’s Medallion of Berserking

Kind of obvious, but I wanted to check.

Bog's Medallion of Berserking provides +10 damage with 2-Handed weapons.

Bracers of Reckless Fury provide +5 damage with 2 handed weapons.

I don't see anything that would suggest that both of these items can be equipped on the same character generating +15 damage. I don't see anything in the Token Database preventing it.

I just want to make sure as I am doing the final testing on the apps for the new token set.

Thanks!

Cranston wrote: Kind of obvious, but I wanted to check.

Bog's Medallion of Berserking provides +10 damage with 2-Handed weapons.

Bracers of Reckless Fury provide +5 damage with 2 handed weapons.

I don't see anything that would suggest that both of these items can be equipped on the same character generating +15 damage. I don't see anything in the Token Database preventing it.

I just want to make sure as I am doing the final testing on the apps for the new token set.

Thanks!

All tokens provide stacking effects when phrased as +x to y, unless specifically mentioned otherwise.

These tokens stack.

It has been ruled that the +X Damage bonuses from Bog's Medallion of Berserking and Bracers of Reckless Fury DO stack. Their respective TDb entries have been updated to reflect that.

One of the reasons why this decision was made--before anyone bought or made either of these tokens--was because we figured anyone with the resources to get Bog's Medallion of Berserking could easily get Bracers of Reckless Fury as well. The +15 Damage from that combination is too good to not take advantage of. And when a thing is too good to not use, that's a darn good sign that thing is overpowered.

<dons asbestos suit>

Druegar wrote: <dons asbestos suit>

This interaction was discussed at length in design.

The Bracers were toned down from their first several versions because they could stack.

Bracers of Fire/Frost/Lightning is a rare, with no weapon restriction, which grant a stacking +2 damage in the wrist slot.

So we are saying here:

+2 at rare usable by all is ok
+5 at ur with weapon limitations, loss of melee offhand, limited classes, and an ac drawback is not ok.

This doesn’t make any sense to me.

This token also provided a critical role in helping fighter and Barbarian not fall too far behind Monk and Ranger. This change lowers damage output of Barbarians and Fighters but does not lower damage output of Monks and Rangers who already deal more.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: <dons asbestos suit>

This interaction was discussed at length in design.

The Bracers were toned down from their first several versions because they could stack.

Bracers of Fire/Frost/Lightning is a rare, with no weapon restriction, which grant a stacking +2 damage in the wrist slot.

So we are saying here:

+2 at rare is ok
+5 at ur with weapon limitations, loss of melee offhand, and an ac drawback is not ok.

This doesn’t make any sense to me.

Agreed to this point. This was discussed, and we already have the option of Charm Bracelets to use:
Charm of Glory -> Ring of Brilliance / Ring of the Eel
Draco Litch Charm
== +5 Damage, which Stacks with Bog's Medallion.

Matthew Hayward wrote: This token also provided a critical role in helping fighter and Barbarian not fall too far behind Monk and Ranger. This change lowers damage output of Barbarians and Fighters but does not lower damage output of Monks and Rangers who already deal more.

This is really a separate topic for another thread. Should Barbarians be that high on the damage list? Maybe its time to just cave and admit that the damage rankings are supposed to be
1. Monk
2. Melee Ranger
3. Barbarian w/ 2H.

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: <dons asbestos suit>

This interaction was discussed at length in design.

The Bracers were toned down from their first several versions because they could stack.

Bracers of Fire/Frost/Lightning is a rare, with no weapon restriction, which grant a stacking +2 damage in the wrist slot.

So we are saying here:

+2 at rare is ok
+5 at ur with weapon limitations, loss of melee offhand, and an ac drawback is not ok.

This doesn’t make any sense to me.

Agreed to this point. This was discussed, and we already have the option of Charm Bracelets to use:
Charm of Glory -> Ring of Brilliance / Ring of the Eel
Draco Litch Charm
== +5 Damage, which Stacks with Bog's Medallion.

Matthew Hayward wrote: This token also provided a critical role in helping fighter and Barbarian not fall too far behind Monk and Ranger. This change lowers damage output of Barbarians and Fighters but does not lower damage output of Monks and Rangers who already deal more.

This is really a separate topic for another thread. Should Barbarians be that high on the damage list? Maybe its time to just cave and admit that the damage rankings are supposed to be
1. Monk
2. Melee Ranger
3. Barbarian w/ 2H.

This ruling does not move Barbarian from 1st to 3rd - Monks and Rangers already do more than Barbarian before this ruling.

This ruling increases the amount by which Monks and Rangers lead Barbarians.

Since the underlying logic of this rules change seems to relate to damage dealing, this is of course relevant.

If Barbarian with Bogs + Bracers is too good, then Monks and Rangers are too good.

Druegar wrote: And when a thing is too good to not use, that's a darn good sign that thing is overpowered.

Could you explain how this statement applied to token design of legendaries, eldritch, or URs in general, like Kvothe’s Bloodless, Gregors Tome of Focus?


I also strongly disagree that this token is “too good to not use” - at UR it competes with your choice of +2 Ioun slots with a set bonus or +2 Charm slots.

Druegar wrote: <dons asbestos suit>

Please consider:

1. What will happen with the Fighter legendary, will it also not stack with this token?

2. Will there ever be a UR wrist slot, usable by all, no restriction melee damage booster in the style of rare Bracers of Fire/Frost/Lightning?

If so - what could its characteristics be, given that the UR Bracers here were emergency erattaed due to being overpowered?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: <dons asbestos suit>

This interaction was discussed at length in design.

The Bracers were toned down from their first several versions because they could stack.

Bracers of Fire/Frost/Lightning is a rare, with no weapon restriction, which grant a stacking +2 damage in the wrist slot.

So we are saying here:

+2 at rare is ok
+5 at ur with weapon limitations, loss of melee offhand, and an ac drawback is not ok.

This doesn’t make any sense to me.

Agreed to this point. This was discussed, and we already have the option of Charm Bracelets to use:
Charm of Glory -> Ring of Brilliance / Ring of the Eel
Draco Litch Charm
== +5 Damage, which Stacks with Bog's Medallion.

Matthew Hayward wrote: This token also provided a critical role in helping fighter and Barbarian not fall too far behind Monk and Ranger. This change lowers damage output of Barbarians and Fighters but does not lower damage output of Monks and Rangers who already deal more.

This is really a separate topic for another thread. Should Barbarians be that high on the damage list? Maybe its time to just cave and admit that the damage rankings are supposed to be
1. Monk
2. Melee Ranger
3. Barbarian w/ 2H.

This ruling does not move Barbarian from 1st to 3rd - Monks and Rangers already do more than Barbarian before this ruling.

This ruling increases the amount by which Monks and Rangers lead Barbarians.

Since the underlying logic of this rules change seems to relate to damage dealing, this is of course relevant.

If Barbarian with Bogs + Bracers is too good, then Monks and Rangers are too good.

Maybe TPTB don't want to close the gap? Perhaps Barbs are supposed to be #3? We would need an official statement to confirm.

In any case, I'm not sure not allowing Bogs + Bracers changes the damage curve at all, given charm bracelets.

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Maybe TPTB don't want to close the gap? Perhaps Barbs are supposed to be #3? We would need an official statement to confirm.

In any case, I'm not sure not allowing Bogs + Bracers changes the damage curve at all, given charm bracelets.

Last post from me on on the topic of Barbrians and Monks.

After 2020 tokens Monks are way further out front than they were before.

This ruling determines how much Monks increase their gap on Barbarians.

In either ruling result Monks increase their lead on Barbarians.

If TBTP wanted to make this ruling because they felt Barbarians were too close to Monks they could say that.

They did not say that.

Instead they indicated this combination of tokens was "Overpowered."

So a Barbarian sliding one puck with and getting +15 damage from Legendary neck and UR wrists is "Overpowered".

Evidently, a Monk sliding two pucks and getting +9 damage from Legendary neck and Rare wrists is not "Overpowered."

This makes no sense to me.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: <dons asbestos suit>

This interaction was discussed at length in design.

The Bracers were toned down from their first several versions because they could stack.

Bracers of Fire/Frost/Lightning is a rare, with no weapon restriction, which grant a stacking +2 damage in the wrist slot.

So we are saying here:

+2 at rare usable by all is ok
+5 at ur with weapon limitations, loss of melee offhand, limited classes, and an ac drawback is not ok.

This doesn’t make any sense to me.

This token also provided a critical role in helping fighter and Barbarian not fall too far behind Monk and Ranger. This change lowers damage output of Barbarians and Fighters but does not lower damage output of Monks and Rangers who already deal more.

100% agree with Matthew here.