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TOPIC: Attack multipliers

Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #1

The TD database goes into detail as to how multipliers stack (ie x2 added to another x2 is x3 rather than x4).

I was thinking this could be really powerful with the dwarven fighter starting at x3 and 2 items (death flail and assassin’s crossbow) also at x3 (neither would give x3 with a dwarven fighter)).

Question 1: beyond the two items I listed, do any other items provide x3 damage?
Question 2: I couldn’t find any examples of two items or conditions where multipliers would stack? Are there any? If so, what are they?

Thanks!

Fred
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Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #2

Buehler?

So far, I found a thrown item that is double damage against undead that could interact with the dwarven X3 crit bonus. That's all I can find. I'd guess there are more but I haven't found them.
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Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #3

I don’t understand he premise of this post.

Are you thinking a death flail wielding dwarf fighter would get something other then 3x for a crit?

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Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #4

I think he's looking for a way to get a Dwarf Fighter up to a x4 Crit, or higher, if available.
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Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #5

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I think he's looking for a way to get a Dwarf Fighter up to a x4 Crit, or higher, if available.


It’s not obvious to me this is possible.

I can see arguments for 3x, 4x, and 9x when a dwarf fighter crits with a 3x crit weapon.

I’m unaware of any 3x crit effects that could stack in the game.

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Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #6

I'm looking for combinations that increase the crit multiplier. For example, there are a few X3 crit weapons as well as the dwarf fighter class that all do x3. Are there conditions by which that can be moved to X4 (or a X2 turned into a X3)? The token database provides rules for handling that situation (a doubling of a normal crit is times 3 rather than 4, a doubling for a times 3 would be 4, etc.).

So far, the only example I have found of it would be a dwarf fighter throwing a sacred hand grenade against undead (does double damage against undead). That would mean a crit there would be times 4 damage and times 3 damage for all other classes.

I wanted to figure this out since it seemed odd that that a set of rules would be implemented for a situation that, as near as I can tell, only occurs with a single weapon (the sacred grenade). I had assumed that there was an oil or something but there aren't any I could find. Seeing only one example definitely made me think I had missed something.

Fred
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Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #7

I found one more - the captain's mug does triple damage on a 20 - so, in the hands of a dwarf fighter, it might do X5 on a natural 20 (X3 and X3). This one might not work because it could be the text overrides normal critical rules and is just the x3.

Fred
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Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #8

Y'all need to put the crack pipe down. ;)
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections in this thread .
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Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #9

What about the Ring of Lone justice? That's an extra 15 damage if the Dwarf fighter is the only one on the 20.

Edit...
This does not appear to be the kind of thing you're looking for.

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Last edit: by Endgame.

Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #10

Druegar wrote: Y'all need to put the crack pipe down. ;)


Hey, we can stop buying tokens any time we want to... *twitch*

It’s more of an academic curiosity than anything. Theoretically, the most damage possible with a single slide to a single target (that isn’t an auto-kill like quivering palm) should be a dwarf fighter using the captain’s mug. Say, 50 dmg (just for easy math) between bonuses and the weapon times 5 is 250 damage (or times 4 for 200 dmg), it’s unclear if it should be times 5 based on the database write-up on multipliers or just times 4 since x2 is normal and the dwarven ability only increases it by one step. A monk or ranger critting twice with similar would only be x3 since the specifics on the token would over-ride the normal x2 resulting in a total of 300 dmg.

It’s definitely something TD should consider in future item designs that damage can get out of control fast if any significant ways to have stacking multipliers is introduced.

Fred
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Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #11

Fred K wrote:

Druegar wrote: Y'all need to put the crack pipe down. ;)


Hey, we can stop buying tokens any time we want to... *twitch*

It’s more of an academic curiosity than anything. Theoretically, the most damage possible with a single slide to a single target (that isn’t an auto-kill like quivering palm) should be a dwarf fighter using the captain’s mug. Say, 50 dmg (just for easy math) between bonuses and the weapon times 5 is 250 damage (or times 4 for 200 dmg), it’s unclear if it should be times 5 based on the database write-up on multipliers or just times 4 since x2 is normal and the dwarven ability only increases it by one step. A monk or ranger critting twice with similar would only be x3 since the specifics on the token would over-ride the normal x2 resulting in a total of 300 dmg.

It’s definitely something TD should consider in future item designs that damage can get out of control fast if any significant ways to have stacking multipliers is introduced.

Fred


I don't think it works like that.

The tokendb entry for Captains mug says:

The weapon deals triple damage (instead of the normal double damage) when a critical hit is scored.

5th level Dwarf Fighter says:

"Any time Dwarf Fighter slides a natural "20" and the result is a critical hit, the attack does triple damage instead of double damage."

Each of these effects replaces the default effect of a critical hit, in other words they change what the rules for a critical hit say.

I believe:

Defautl crit = 2x
5th level dwarf crit on 20 = 3x
Captains mug crit = 3x
5th level dwarf wielding captains mug crit on 20 = 3x

You'd need to find something that "doubles damage" not something that replaces the critical effect to find an effect that could result in multiplication or scaling beyond 3x.

I think Ring of Wizardry, MeC, are the only things that double damage (rather than altering the definition of a critical hit) that in the game for general damage, and Thunder Stone vs. constructs and Sacred damage sources vs. undead.

So, a Dwarf Fighter using a Sacred weapon vs. Undead and scoring a critical hit does cause an interesting question: is it 6x the base damage, or some other amount.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

Attack multipliers 4 years 9 months ago #12

The sacred grenade doubles damage against undead as well. That would work w the dearf.

I agree that MEC would work with wizard but less effectively since that only doubles the base damage (and would require the ring of wizardry and only be sliding spells).

The captain’s mug might apply as well but we’d need a ruling there. Normally specific trumps general but this is a case of two specifics that interact strangely.

Fred
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