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TOPIC: Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable

Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #1

I'm attempting to vector the discussion on the 2020 UR ideas thread for how to make all years of a 7 year transmute more evenly desirable to this note.

Have at it!

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #2

I think one way to address this is with token design, if future 7 year sets followed these parameters:

- Each year provides a distinct effect.
- More desirable effects are released as the set goes on.

It would tend to balance out somewhat the tokens.

Part of why the latest Cavadar tokens have less value now is that they are interchangeable unless you are getting to max psychic tier - to do psychic effect N you just have to have N different teeth - doesn't matter which one.

If instead the way the teeth worked was:

Tooth 1 - Grants adjust mass
Tooth 2 - Grants control mass
Tooth 3 - Grants ESP
Tooth 4 - Grants Planr Vision
Tooth 5 - Grants Energy Adjustment
Tooth 6 - Grants Mind Shield
Tooth 7 - Grants Energy Control

Then the later teeth would be more desirable than the earlier teeth. The earlier teeth would still be desirable for people trying to make the whole set.

Also - I'm not sure how much of a problem this is... 5th teeth are going for ~50.

1st teeth were going for ~75 when they were new.

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #3

I think I'd like to add to your parameter list, namely:

- Each token provides some benefit on its own

In all fairness, we've only seen two "cycles" of 7 year transmutes (and this cycle isn't even done yet!). But the fact that R7P pieces function without having any form of slot tax to enable them makes them stand out as opposed to the Cavadar cycle.

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #4

isauteikisa wrote: I think I'd like to add to your parameter list, namely:

- Each token provides some benefit on its own

In all fairness, we've only seen two "cycles" of 7 year transmutes (and this cycle isn't even done yet!). But the fact that R7P pieces function without having any form of slot tax to enable them makes them stand out as opposed to the Cavadar cycle.


With a psychic enabling token, each of the teeth does do something. Granted, this does mean that one slot must be dedicated to a psychic enabling token though.

Also, its an interesting distinction that the segments have a unique function based on which one it is, while the teeth are all the same unless there are more of them.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #5

What could have been done, to capitalize on the 'generic-ness' of the teeth, would have been to make each effect cumulative with the number of teeth, not just teeth tiers.

i.e.
Energy Adjustment/ Energy Control could have been just a single tooth reading, "Negate X points of Cold, Fire, Shock, or Sonic damage (once), where is the number of unique teeth worn."
or
Any of the full room teeth could have simply read, "For X number of room, where is the number of unique teeth worn."

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #6

The rod segments were much better.

I wasn’t playing when the first 2 Teeth came out. I basically looked at the price and functionality and decided not to bother with them. Probably next cycle I’ll get onboard.

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #7

My biggest problem with the teeth is that the psychic powers are far too situational when compared to the rod parts. I'm not sure I've needed water walking or feather fall and tokens to ignore surprise and incorporeal are common enough with bead of whole vision and amulet of plane shifting last year. I'm looking forward to energy control, but that's only because of it's flexibility with the damage type.

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #8

I agree, Brokkr: the Teeth feel like a weird overloaded Figurine of Power that takes up a better slot on your card.

Granted, there's no Figurine of "Ignore This Puzzle", as the ability to water walk unlocked last con: that being said, even good situational abilities can be either non-relevant or forgotten in the heat of a run, while the Rod pieces were mostly all relevant (breakpoints aside).

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Last edit: by isauteikisa.

Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #9

I've been using the rod segments for party members since they came out, but I haven't bothered to outfit any teeth even though I've got plenty of each of them for the whole group. I'm collecting them more for getting an Eldritch token than for the psychic ability.

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #10

I’m hoping the complete teeth grant psychic ability on their own (since they are ultimately the only driver of psionic ability atm - so I’m hoping there isn’t a token tax to use the combined teeth)

I think the teeth setup was interesting and different, but I fear whenever strange situational things are introduced, they become forgotten. With the teeth, they won’t be as forgotten as many folks will have a set of teeth.

No one likes a ‘have this token, solve the room’ circumstance, but I’ve seen rare and expensive tokens ruled to not work due to room mechanics disallowing them... even though the token is explicit. (An example was a year with poison and wearing a MoG, but hearing from a room DM that it didn’t help). This would apply to the Pandemonium items and the teeth abilities.

So the question is... what to do?

I think that, as is, the teeth are underpowered at what they do. But, they are also slotless. On the other hand, they currently require a token tax to use for a benefit that might not even be realized... once per dungeon - twice if you are wearing the 2019 shirt.

So I would be more of the mindset to make the eldritch grill require the psionic ioun Stone in the recipe (since most people with teeth would otherwise be utilizing that item anyways and it would eliminate the token tax), grant psionic ability with the completed item, and find a more universal benefit for the last tooth beyond the single year of release.

I also know the teeth are bonuses and a thank you - so they don’t necessarily have to be overly powerful on their own, particularly as a slotless item.
Do well and you will have no need for ancestors. - Voltaire

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #11

I think the teeth, if they are going to require anything to transmute other than the teeth themselves, should require "any UR token that grants access to higher level psychic power"
This would already be more than the Rod took, but imagine if you came in late, acquired the first couple teeth, but used either a charming crown or now dark Disciples shirt to access the power, then had to go back to find the Ioun stone.

Yes, situational tokens can easily be forgotten. I think, with this years power, we will see a lot more psychic used. Will saves are pretty common, and game changing. Passing where you otherwise might have failed is a big deal.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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Making all 7 years of a 7 year transmute desirable 3 months 2 days ago #12

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I think the teeth, if they are going to require anything to transmute other than the teeth themselves, should require "any UR token that grants access to higher level psychic power"
This would already be more than the Rod took, but imagine if you came in late, acquired the first couple teeth, but used either a charming crown or now dark Disciples shirt to access the power, then had to go back to find the Ioun stone.

Yes, situational tokens can easily be forgotten. I think, with this years power, we will see a lot more psychic used. Will saves are pretty common, and game changing. Passing where you otherwise might have failed is a big deal.


Like when an Ogre Magi casts sleep and the whole party fails...

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