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TOPIC: The balance between treasure and stats

The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #13

My thought is the treasure mix would wind up being diluted. Like Wade, once I had max XP, I’d being loading up on the treasure. I anticipate a fair number of people would do this.

TD would have to have more tokens on hand to pull. If the current percentages were maintained, it might create some disincentives for token sales.

I like treasure as much or more than the next person. But there has to be some balance.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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Last edit: by Harlax.

The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #14

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It's an interesting question, at some point treasure becomes worthless if every slot is filled with a TE which in turn makes the TEs worthless.

If I had to pick a number based on the world today, I would say 25 since the nuggets will take us to 23, after that let's say we add on one more +2 TE, then reprint CoGF for synergy reasons, and then maybe just go into a forever reprint cycle nuggets+newTE+Cogf forms a 10 year cycle that would allow periodic access to COA.

I do feel like, no matter how unfun it is to say, we need to cap treasure at some point though. I dont really want to get to the point were we start to water down the mix, that wouldn't be good for the vas majority of people who only make 3 draws.

I also think there is merit to Endgames idea about capping max Treasure by difficulty, though it will cause drama/community stratification if someone wants to run nightmare for max loot and someone else calls for normal or is pressured into a difficulty they are not comfortable with.
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Last edit: by Picc.

The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #15

In this alternate universe, TD has two extra semi trucks just to haul token draws to GC. Also, the cement mixer used for mixing tokens has been upgraded to a full size cement mixing truck.

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The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #16

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I play with just enough gear to get max XP, and no more. The rest goes to TEs.
Once I've earned max XP, then every future run is all TEs on normal or non-lethal.


Pretty much that. I'd want a weapon still. But beyond that every slot would be TEs.

Since we are in hypothetical land... why not make some tokens that give both +treasure AND stats? Like Magic Find in Diablo 2, once you're in the endgame and grinding for gear, you would stack as much as you could. However since every item has multiple properties you still got good stats in addition to the Magic Find.
Classes Played: Barbarian (65 times), Monk (56), Ranger (33), Rogue (25), Cleric (21), Fighter (13), Druid (12), Paladin (11), Dwarf Fighter (10), Bard (7), Elf Wizard (2), Wizard (2)

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The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #17

Jeff321 wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I play with just enough gear to get max XP, and no more. The rest goes to TEs.
Once I've earned max XP, then every future run is all TEs on normal or non-lethal.


Pretty much that. I'd want a weapon still. But beyond that every slot would be TEs.

Since we are in hypothetical land... why not make some tokens that give both +treasure AND stats? Like Magic Find in Diablo 2, once you're in the endgame and grinding for gear, you would stack as much as you could. However since every item has multiple properties you still got good stats in addition to the Magic Find.


Gloves of Greedy Smashing: +3 Str and + 1 Treasure

Shirt of Greedy Focus: +1 to spell healing spell damage, and polymorph damage and +1 treasure

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The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #18

I'm pretty sure I'd still use a non-TE to get to 5th level. For the melee classes or bard I'd probably still use a non-TE weapon/instrument. Bard I'd still use a token to allow some action while singing.
it's harder to say, but I think I'd still equip a couple of save boosting tokens to limit instant death/paralyze/petrify type scenarios.
Maybe an HP or con booster on the frail classes.
I can't imagine even trying to do anything beyond normal difficulty in this world though.

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The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #19

Fiddy wrote: In this alternate universe, TD has two extra semi trucks just to haul token draws to GC. Also, the cement mixer used for mixing tokens has been upgraded to a full size cement mixing truck.


Streamline the process.

Just drive the mixer to GC. ;)
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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Last edit: by Harlax.

The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #20

Picc wrote: It's an interesting question, at some point treasure becomes worthless if every slot is filled with a TE which in turn makes the TEs worthless.

If I had to pick a number based on the world today, I would say 25 since the nuggets will take us to 23, after that let's say we add on one more +2 TE, then reprint CoGF for synergy reasons, and then maybe just go into a forever reprint cycle nuggets+newTE+Cogf forms a 10 year cycle that would allow periodic access to COA.

I do feel like, no matter how unfun it is to say, we need to cap treasure at some point though. I dont really want to get to the point were we start to water down the mix, that wouldn't be good for the vas majority of people who only make 3 draws.

I also think there is merit to Endgames idea about capping max Treasure by difficulty, though it will cause drama/community stratification if someone wants to run nightmare for max loot and someone else calls for normal or is pressured into a difficulty they are not comfortable with.


This is a really good point - if most players jam TEs in each slot, there will be very little demand for transmutes and non-TE URs.

What are you going to do with that relic Shield you found in the treasure? Use it? No! Sell it? Sure - but it's worth about $3.50 - you have to find one of those nuts who doesn't care about treasure to but it ;).

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The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #21

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I'd play my Dwarf Fighter Rybak the same as I play him now. With a Strength so high he could move a small moon. With a Dexterity sitting at 20 so he can use any Legendary ranged weapon. With an AC so high Eric can never hit him unless he rolls a Nat-20.

Seriously... Eric has it out for Rybak since he couldn't hit him at all at the very first Epic True Grind. I did more damage to Rybak voluntarily by having Mrs Laz punch me in the arm to keep his HPs at 69 the whole time. You know...? Because 69. =)

When I play now Rybak is beefed up just on the off chance Eric will pop into a Combat Room to try and kill Rybak.

Alternate Earth or not I'm assuming Eric Prime would follow me through the Dimensional Breach.
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Have you checked the Token DataBase ?

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The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #22

Fiddy wrote:

Jeff321 wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I play with just enough gear to get max XP, and no more. The rest goes to TEs.
Once I've earned max XP, then every future run is all TEs on normal or non-lethal.


Pretty much that. I'd want a weapon still. But beyond that every slot would be TEs.

Since we are in hypothetical land... why not make some tokens that give both +treasure AND stats? Like Magic Find in Diablo 2, once you're in the endgame and grinding for gear, you would stack as much as you could. However since every item has multiple properties you still got good stats in addition to the Magic Find.


Gloves of Greedy Smashing: +3 Str and + 1 Treasure

Shirt of Greedy Focus: +1 to spell healing spell damage, and polymorph damage and +1 treasure


Normal Dagger with +3 Treasure. Leather Armor with +3 Treasure. :)

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Last edit: by Mike Steele.

The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #23

Picc wrote: It's an interesting question, at some point treasure becomes worthless if every slot is filled with a TE which in turn makes the TEs worthless.

If I had to pick a number based on the world today, I would say 25 since the nuggets will take us to 23, after that let's say we add on one more +2 TE, then reprint CoGF for synergy reasons, and then maybe just go into a forever reprint cycle nuggets+newTE+Cogf forms a 10 year cycle that would allow periodic access to COA.

I do feel like, no matter how unfun it is to say, we need to cap treasure at some point though. I dont really want to get to the point were we start to water down the mix, that wouldn't be good for the vas majority of people who only make 3 draws.

I also think there is merit to Endgames idea about capping max Treasure by difficulty, though it will cause drama/community stratification if someone wants to run nightmare for max loot and someone else calls for normal or is pressured into a difficulty they are not comfortable with.


Yep. Cap the Treasure. Going to have to at some point anyway I think. If TD caps the treasure they can still release TE's in different slots so you can pick and choose what your build looks like. Transmuted TE's could also be created that give players something to strive for in order to free up slots. Example, UR TE's are +2 Treasure, then have a Relic TE that is +4 Treasure but requires a handful of UR TE's in order to make it. Then a Legendary TE that maybe gives you +10 Treasure but requires a few Relic TE's as ingredients and so on. That way players can focus on increasing their character builds (stats) by trying to open up slots which is done by leveling up your TE's from UR's to Relics and so on. Allows one to shoot for max stat build and max treasure.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi

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The balance between treasure and stats 5 years 2 months ago #24

No one has addressed the “no ghosting” part of the premise. I’d much rather have a reasonable cap and allow limited ghosting as we do now.

I like the suggestion of 25, barring artifacts of course.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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