TOPIC: All this discussion means we did it, right?

Leaving all of my personal anger about the new state of Wizardry in 2019, I honestly don’t think we did it, for the reason that we ran up against a hard deadline before some issues were completely hammered out.

Specifically - the last change from the offhand damage item to be an Ioun Stone. I believe that there was more discussion to be had on changing that token, but we ran up against a hard deadline to get files to a printer. I think that we could have come to a more balanced outcome than +2 melee damage in an ioun slot had we not been under time pressure at the very end of the process.

It’s a hard thing to tell when a discussion has little chance of progression and a decision needs to be made. As this was my first year seeing this part of the process, I may be speaking out of line here. But I think, had we another week to discuss, that at minimum could have been remedied.

Did we get some things done? Yes, and I do believe a lot of good came out of the process, even though I couldn’t name anyone who walked away from this process feeling 100% happy. But this can be better. And I hope next year we have the clock time to make a reasonable attempt to do so.

The only way to get more time would be to start earlier.

If I'm speaking only for myself, I would have been happy with whatever we did, I just like seeing new ideas.

I think we did a good job balancing most things.

I am a little worried about the ioun stone, but since we are printing it, I will be getting a couple, and I know others who will be as well.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The only way to get more time would be to start earlier.

Pretty sure this was just one of those years where life got in the way.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The only way to get more time would be to start earlier.

Pretty sure this was just one of those years where life got in the way.

Yeah, I can see that. Certainly there was a lot going on for our first family.....

Brad Mortensen wrote: For a choice to be a choice, you have to have a choice.
(snip)
And every future Eldritch piece will be a non-choice, too, unless the set bonus caps at five.

Same thing for the class legendaries. All of them will lock up a slot, and that’s the opposite of choice.

It’s going to be a very difficult needle to thread, and I don’t have an answer.

I don't have any clear answers either... but a few thoughts on the matter.

The first is that class Legendaries will lock up a slot for that class... but there's the possibility of some other very interesting and powerful neck items coming out later.... perhaps something which isn't quite as good as any particular class legendary, but is more flexible and usable by more classes. It could be a good option for either someone who isn't locked into a specific class, or who missed the class Legendaries and wants to get in onthe next round of cool stuff.

The only trouble there, would be to find the sweet spot where a competing neck item wasn't better than the class Legendary... just different.

As for Eldritch BIS... I can think of a great Eldritch multi-year token which wouldn't necessarily lock up a slot. Make a 3-year set of PANTS. It would directly conflict with the Kilt. Have it be a set of pants which work off the new INT& WIS (& Cha) stats. If those stats do interesting things, we may be able to create an equally desirable Eldritch which causes some people to have Bead-Builds, or Tome Builds, while others are going old-school and focusing on STR or DEX builds.

It could work.... if the path was planned out well enough, and didn't succumb to pressure from throngs of people saying, "This token is too weak, because it's not clearly better than the Kilt."

Raven wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: For a choice to be a choice, you have to have a choice.
(snip)
And every future Eldritch piece will be a non-choice, too, unless the set bonus caps at five.

Same thing for the class legendaries. All of them will lock up a slot, and that’s the opposite of choice.

It’s going to be a very difficult needle to thread, and I don’t have an answer.

I don't have any clear answers either... but a few thoughts on the matter.

The first is that class Legendaries will lock up a slot for that class... but there's the possibility of some other very interesting and powerful neck items coming out later.... perhaps something which isn't quite as good as any particular class legendary, but is more flexible and usable by more classes. It could be a good option for either someone who isn't locked into a specific class, or who missed the class Legendaries and wants to get in onthe next round of cool stuff.

The only trouble there, would be to find the sweet spot where a competing neck item wasn't better than the class Legendary... just different.

As for Eldritch BIS... I can think of a great Eldritch multi-year token which wouldn't necessarily lock up a slot. Make a 3-year set of PANTS. It would directly conflict with the Kilt. Have it be a set of pants which work off the new INT& WIS (& Cha) stats. If those stats do interesting things, we may be able to create an equally desirable Eldritch which causes some people to have Bead-Builds, or Tome Builds, while others are going old-school and focusing on STR or DEX builds.

It could work.... if the path was planned out well enough, and didn't succumb to pressure from throngs of people saying, "This token is too weak, because it's not clearly better than the Kilt."

Boots would also be a slot that would support an Eldritch item that would not be additive. Ring would not as equipping two is an option.

If stopping at 5 is a goal, then no more slotless Eldritch should follow the Teeth. Assuming they are slot less..

Harlax wrote:

Raven wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: For a choice to be a choice, you have to have a choice.
(snip)
And every future Eldritch piece will be a non-choice, too, unless the set bonus caps at five.

Same thing for the class legendaries. All of them will lock up a slot, and that’s the opposite of choice.

It’s going to be a very difficult needle to thread, and I don’t have an answer.

I don't have any clear answers either... but a few thoughts on the matter.

The first is that class Legendaries will lock up a slot for that class... but there's the possibility of some other very interesting and powerful neck items coming out later.... perhaps something which isn't quite as good as any particular class legendary, but is more flexible and usable by more classes. It could be a good option for either someone who isn't locked into a specific class, or who missed the class Legendaries and wants to get in onthe next round of cool stuff.

The only trouble there, would be to find the sweet spot where a competing neck item wasn't better than the class Legendary... just different.

As for Eldritch BIS... I can think of a great Eldritch multi-year token which wouldn't necessarily lock up a slot. Make a 3-year set of PANTS. It would directly conflict with the Kilt. Have it be a set of pants which work off the new INT& WIS (& Cha) stats. If those stats do interesting things, we may be able to create an equally desirable Eldritch which causes some people to have Bead-Builds, or Tome Builds, while others are going old-school and focusing on STR or DEX builds.

It could work.... if the path was planned out well enough, and didn't succumb to pressure from throngs of people saying, "This token is too weak, because it's not clearly better than the Kilt."

Boots would also be a slot that would support an Eldritch item that would not be additive. Ring would not as equipping two is an option.

If stopping at 5 is a goal, then no more slotless Eldritch should follow the Teeth. Assuming they are slot less..

I like the idea of the rod and the teeth both grand eldritch, and slotless. Makes them feel timeless.

Of course the teeth aren't discussed yet.

Nice solution . You could add a Ring that said “may not equip SRoEC.”

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The only way to get more time would be to start earlier.

Pretty sure this was just one of those years where life got in the way.

Yeah, I can see that. Certainly there was a lot going on for our first family.....

Like to see Lori's reaction if folks start calling her the 1st lady..

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I like the idea of the rod and the teeth both grand eldritch, and slotless. Makes them feel timeless.

Of course the teeth aren't discussed yet.

Since the teeth already have an announced special event as a bonus, I don't know that they need to do much other than give you the 5th piece benefit already announced - more heals and damage.

Harlax wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I like the idea of the rod and the teeth both grand eldritch, and slotless. Makes them feel timeless.

Of course the teeth aren't discussed yet.

Since the teeth already have an announced special event as a bonus, I don't know that they need to do much other than give you the 5th piece benefit already announced - more heals and damage.

I think that is fair.

I hope they unlock psychic, but if they dont, they dont.

Raven wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: For a choice to be a choice, you have to have a choice.
(snip)
And every future Eldritch piece will be a non-choice, too, unless the set bonus caps at five.

Same thing for the class legendaries. All of them will lock up a slot, and that’s the opposite of choice.

It’s going to be a very difficult needle to thread, and I don’t have an answer.

I don't have any clear answers either... but a few thoughts on the matter.

The first is that class Legendaries will lock up a slot for that class... but there's the possibility of some other very interesting and powerful neck items coming out later.... perhaps something which isn't quite as good as any particular class legendary, but is more flexible and usable by more classes. It could be a good option for either someone who isn't locked into a specific class, or who missed the class Legendaries and wants to get in onthe next round of cool stuff.

The only trouble there, would be to find the sweet spot where a competing neck item wasn't better than the class Legendary... just different.

As for Eldritch BIS... I can think of a great Eldritch multi-year token which wouldn't necessarily lock up a slot. Make a 3-year set of PANTS. It would directly conflict with the Kilt. Have it be a set of pants which work off the new INT& WIS (& Cha) stats. If those stats do interesting things, we may be able to create an equally desirable Eldritch which causes some people to have Bead-Builds, or Tome Builds, while others are going old-school and focusing on STR or DEX builds.

It could work.... if the path was planned out well enough, and didn't succumb to pressure from throngs of people saying, "This token is too weak, because it's not clearly better than the Kilt."

I think Tomes might need to be more powerful than we've seen to date for us to start seeing builds based around them. But, they might start trending more powerful anyways once they are a limited slot.

We'd also probably need more slot scaling than currently exists on Charisma, where you only ever get a second slot. Otherwise, your build would basically be trade the slot that you're using to gain Int to get the Tome.

I guess we'll see what the future holds next year.