TOPIC: Healing wands

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Aegoce wrote: It could work to have the wand apply an effect blocking wand (or all) healing for the remainder of the room or event maybe on the target. Comparing it to other hp related tokens (hp/room or Max hp) it would still be pretty strong.

But it would still obsolete Lay on hands, also you could do your normal healing then use the wand. If I had 10 wands that only heal each person 1 point each and used them at the end of each room that basically becomes a extra Regen 1

I just see too many problems balancing healing chargeless wands at pack level.

Perhaps that wand could include wording limiting it to one use per type of wand per room? There is probably some sort of wording which could sufficiently limit a healing wand.

Mike Steele wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Aegoce wrote: It could work to have the wand apply an effect blocking wand (or all) healing for the remainder of the room or event maybe on the target. Comparing it to other hp related tokens (hp/room or Max hp) it would still be pretty strong.

But it would still obsolete Lay on hands, also you could do your normal healing then use the wand. If I had 10 wands that only heal each person 1 point each and used them at the end of each room that basically becomes a extra Regen 1

I just see too many problems balancing healing chargeless wands at pack level.

Perhaps that wand could include wording limiting it to one use per type of wand per room? There is probably some sort of wording which could sufficiently limit a healing wand.

Once we have a few more years of damage wands, that could be the rule for ALL wands to keep things simple.

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Aegoce wrote: It could work to have the wand apply an effect blocking wand (or all) healing for the remainder of the room or event maybe on the target. Comparing it to other hp related tokens (hp/room or Max hp) it would still be pretty strong.

But it would still obsolete Lay on hands, also you could do your normal healing then use the wand. If I had 10 wands that only heal each person 1 point each and used them at the end of each room that basically becomes a extra Regen 1

I just see too many problems balancing healing chargeless wands at pack level.

Perhaps that wand could include wording limiting it to one use per type of wand per room? There is probably some sort of wording which could sufficiently limit a healing wand.

Once we have a few more years of damage wands, that could be the rule for ALL wands to keep things simple.

I agree but right now there are so few of the new wands that limiting damage wands down to 1 of each name would make mystic mouth junk. 3 or 4 years into chargeless wands it would make more sense. So maybe just wait until year 4 or 5 to add a healing wand.

I just thought of a solution to the healing wand problem. Make the rule that chargeless wands can only be used in combat. So once combat is over no using a bunch of tokens as effectively free actions.

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Aegoce wrote: It could work to have the wand apply an effect blocking wand (or all) healing for the remainder of the room or event maybe on the target. Comparing it to other hp related tokens (hp/room or Max hp) it would still be pretty strong.

But it would still obsolete Lay on hands, also you could do your normal healing then use the wand. If I had 10 wands that only heal each person 1 point each and used them at the end of each room that basically becomes a extra Regen 1

I just see too many problems balancing healing chargeless wands at pack level.

Perhaps that wand could include wording limiting it to one use per type of wand per room? There is probably some sort of wording which could sufficiently limit a healing wand.

Once we have a few more years of damage wands, that could be the rule for ALL wands to keep things simple.

I agree but right now there are so few of the new wands that limiting damage wands down to 1 of each name would make mystic mouth junk. 3 or 4 years into chargeless wands it would make more sense. So maybe just wait until year 4 or 5 to add a healing wand.

Or, just convert all the old wands to chargeless, and change the rule now to one use per room per type of wand. That has the added bonus of not obsoleting old wands.

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I just thought of a solution to the healing wand problem. Make the rule that chargeless wands can only be used in combat. So once combat is over no using a bunch of tokens as effectively free actions.

This feels like the cleanest solution I've heard so far. No real impact to the damage wands, since they already had no use outside combat. And I'm not immediately seeing a way to abuse it. Lets make it more concrete so we can pick it apart. Say we made the following healing wands in the new style.
Rare - Wand of Cure Moderate - Heals 5 pts - Usable by Clerics
Uncommon - Wand of Cure Light - Heals 3 pts - Usable by Bards, Clerics, and Druids
Common - Wand of Cure Minor - Heals 1 pt - Usable by Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers

Question 1: How do mischievous players abuse these if we limit their use to during combat only?

Question 2: Are those numbers too low? Too high? Just about right?

Mike Steele wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Aegoce wrote: It could work to have the wand apply an effect blocking wand (or all) healing for the remainder of the room or event maybe on the target. Comparing it to other hp related tokens (hp/room or Max hp) it would still be pretty strong.

But it would still obsolete Lay on hands, also you could do your normal healing then use the wand. If I had 10 wands that only heal each person 1 point each and used them at the end of each room that basically becomes a extra Regen 1

I just see too many problems balancing healing chargeless wands at pack level.

Perhaps that wand could include wording limiting it to one use per type of wand per room? There is probably some sort of wording which could sufficiently limit a healing wand.

Once we have a few more years of damage wands, that could be the rule for ALL wands to keep things simple.

I agree but right now there are so few of the new wands that limiting damage wands down to 1 of each name would make mystic mouth junk. 3 or 4 years into chargeless wands it would make more sense. So maybe just wait until year 4 or 5 to add a healing wand.

Or, just convert all the old wands to chargeless, and change the rule now to one use per room per type of wand. That has the added bonus of not obsoleting old wands.

One per room per type of wand has a strong negative impact on new players that only have quick access to current year wands (via starter 10-pack and direct purchases from the TD store at the convention).

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Chargeless damage wands have basically obsoleted non-AOE damage scrolls.

Are damage scrolls really obsoleted, since you can do both of them on your turn if you have a Mystic Mouth?

As I wrote it, and as far as Grind goes, absolutely. I saw zero single-target damage scrolls being used last weekend.

Back when wands had charges, they were a little weaker but lasted longer than scrolls. Now they’re just as powerful as they were but last forever. As a result, wands have instantly become over-powered, IMO, as Incognito belatedly predicted.

But spells are more powerful than either, considering all the focus items available. I would think people would spell then wand, not scroll then wand, unless the scroll did something other than single-target damage.

Even without a Mystic Mouth, some damage scrolls do more damage than a wand.

10 vs 8, GASP vs Flourite. So yes, consumable scrolls do +2 damage vs infinite wands. As they should. But is it enough?

How about this new rule - when using a wand, you may “snap it in half” to do +2 damage, then you toss it in the consumables bucket. How many people consider that a good trade-off?

And, I suppose we're just thinking of people with tons of tokens ...

We have to make rules geared to the suitcase players; they’re the ones most likely to abuse them.

Speaking of which, I’m not a fan of overly-complex rules. If anything, maybe there should just be wand case slots as a function of class. And/or, some “1/game” or “one use” wands could be created.

But if healing wands get modeled after damage wands, I’m afraid the wheels will come off.

Make an int based restriction on number of chargeless wand usages per room? I don't think that's enough on its own to balance against existing things, but hey, at least it gives a use for int.

Fiddy wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I just thought of a solution to the healing wand problem. Make the rule that chargeless wands can only be used in combat. So once combat is over no using a bunch of tokens as effectively free actions.

This feels like the cleanest solution I've heard so far. No real impact to the damage wands, since they already had no use outside combat. And I'm not immediately seeing a way to abuse it. Lets make it more concrete so we can pick it apart. Say we made the following healing wands in the new style.
Rare - Wand of Cure Moderate - Heals 5 pts - Usable by Clerics
Uncommon - Wand of Cure Light - Heals 3 pts - Usable by Bards, Clerics, and Druids
Common - Wand of Cure Minor - Heals 1 pt - Usable by Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers

Question 1: How do mischievous players abuse these if we limit their use to during combat only?

Question 2: Are those numbers too low? Too high? Just about right?

I’m thinking we limit this part of the conversation to Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizards

The reason I say that is these are the classes that can use mystic mouth or Ioun Stone Fluorite Cube. I prefer playing paladin, paladins can’t use mystic mouth or fluorite cube so I don’t see a paladin or ranger being able to abuse the wands if we say wands can only be used in combat.

Also wands only being useful in combat would be one advantage to scrolls.

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I just thought of a solution to the healing wand problem. Make the rule that chargeless wands can only be used in combat. So once combat is over no using a bunch of tokens as effectively free actions.

This feels like the cleanest solution I've heard so far. No real impact to the damage wands, since they already had no use outside combat. And I'm not immediately seeing a way to abuse it. Lets make it more concrete so we can pick it apart. Say we made the following healing wands in the new style.
Rare - Wand of Cure Moderate - Heals 5 pts - Usable by Clerics
Uncommon - Wand of Cure Light - Heals 3 pts - Usable by Bards, Clerics, and Druids
Common - Wand of Cure Minor - Heals 1 pt - Usable by Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers

Question 1: How do mischievous players abuse these if we limit their use to during combat only?

Question 2: Are those numbers too low? Too high? Just about right?

I’m thinking we limit this part of the conversation to Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizards

The reason I say that is these are the classes that can use mystic mouth or Ioun Stone Fluorite Cube. I prefer playing paladin, paladins can’t use mystic mouth or fluorite cube so I don’t see a paladin or ranger being able to abuse the wands if we say wands can only be used in combat.

Also wands only being useful in combat would be one advantage to scrolls.

That makes sense, but you can leave off Wizards if we're talking healing.

Fiddy wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I just thought of a solution to the healing wand problem. Make the rule that chargeless wands can only be used in combat. So once combat is over no using a bunch of tokens as effectively free actions.

This feels like the cleanest solution I've heard so far. No real impact to the damage wands, since they already had no use outside combat. And I'm not immediately seeing a way to abuse it. Lets make it more concrete so we can pick it apart. Say we made the following healing wands in the new style.
Rare - Wand of Cure Moderate - Heals 5 pts - Usable by Clerics
Uncommon - Wand of Cure Light - Heals 3 pts - Usable by Bards, Clerics, and Druids
Common - Wand of Cure Minor - Heals 1 pt - Usable by Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers

Question 1: How do mischievous players abuse these if we limit their use to during combat only?

Question 2: Are those numbers too low? Too high? Just about right?

I’m thinking we limit this part of the conversation to Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizards

The reason I say that is these are the classes that can use mystic mouth or Ioun Stone Fluorite Cube. I prefer playing paladin, paladins can’t use mystic mouth or fluorite cube so I don’t see a paladin or ranger being able to abuse the wands if we say wands can only be used in combat.

Also wands only being useful in combat would be one advantage to scrolls.

That makes sense, but you can leave off Wizards if we're talking healing.

You can also leave off the Ioun Stone Fluorite Cube if we're talking healing. It only affects damage.