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TOPIC: 2019 Token Development

2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #13

archmage78 wrote: Wands are not longer consumable??!?!?!?!?!?!?! That is super exciting and yes, now we need an UR wand!!!!!!


At least all new wands are non consumable. Starting with the 2018 set.

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2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #14

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d like to see a cycle of holy swords since we most likely are going to hell next year. It seems like a good year theme wise at least.

Also since wands are no longer consumables, possibly a UR or relic wand of wonder. Effect is specific to each room and changes from con to con. I’m not sure if that is too much work or not but sounds fun. Either way the new wand rule gives some new design space.


Love this. I’ve been excited about UR and transmute possibilities for wands now that we live in this brave new nonconsummable world. Your wand of wonder idea is really cool. Not to mention illiterative.

Would be neat to see UR+ wands have more damage and maybe even less restriction on uses per room.

How about a UR wand of elements that lets the user specify the element of the spell, a la the crown of elemental mastery? Or maybe it’s a transmute requiring one to mulch a wand of at least four different kinds of elements? Maybe the transmute path could look something like:
-UR Wand of Elements: 10 damage and pick your element
-Relic Greater Wand of Elements: 10 damage, pick your element, and infinite uses per room (requires UR wand and a bunch of rare wands of various elements to transmute)
-Legendary Eldritch Wand (or maybe Elder Wand???): 15 eldritch damage and infinite uses per room (requires relic wand and a bunch of rare wands of various elements to transmute)

I really, really, really like the idea of transmuting old charged wands into fancier relic (and even legendary???) wands. Would creates a convenient incentive to mulch the old charged wands out of existence (one of the stated goals for making things easier on DMs) while easing the pain of their new-found irrelevance (or less relevance, at least).

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Last edit: by Boilerplate. Reason: Added details on possible transmute path.

2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #15

Boilerplate wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d like to see a cycle of holy swords since we most likely are going to hell next year. It seems like a good year theme wise at least.

Also since wands are no longer consumables, possibly a UR or relic wand of wonder. Effect is specific to each room and changes from con to con. I’m not sure if that is too much work or not but sounds fun. Either way the new wand rule gives some new design space.


Love this. I’ve been excited about UR and transmute possibilities for wands now that we live in this brave new nonconsummable world. Your wand of wonder idea is really cool. Not to mention illiterative.

Would be neat to see UR+ wands have more damage and maybe even less restriction on uses per room.

How about a UR wand of elements that lets the user specify the element of the spell, a la the crown of elemental mastery? Or maybe it’s a transmute requiring one to mulch a wand of at least four different kinds of elements? Maybe the transmute path could look something like:
-UR Wand of Elements: 10 damage and pick your element
-Relic Greater Wand of Elements: 10 damage, pick your element, and infinite uses per room (requires UR wand and a bunch of rare wands of various elements to transmute)
-Legendary Eldritch Wand (or maybe Elder Wand???): 15 eldritch damage and infinite uses per room (requires relic wand and a bunch of rare wands of various elements to transmute)

I really, really, really like the idea of transmuting old charged wands into fancier relic (and even legendary???) wands. Would creates a convenient incentive to mulch the old charged wands out of existence (one of the stated goals for making things easier on DMs) while easing the pain of their new-found irrelevance (or less relevance, at least).


I guess if the goal was to mulch as many old wands as possible there could be two recipes. One that is more conventional and uses a bunch of Philosopher's Stone.
The second giving a altranet value to old wands based or remaining charges.

Possibly rares are worth 3 points per charge remaining
Uncommons 2 points per charge remaining
Commons 1 point per charge remaining

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2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #16

Boilerplate wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d like to see a cycle of holy swords since we most likely are going to hell next year. It seems like a good year theme wise at least.

Also since wands are no longer consumables, possibly a UR or relic wand of wonder. Effect is specific to each room and changes from con to con. I’m not sure if that is too much work or not but sounds fun. Either way the new wand rule gives some new design space.


Love this. I’ve been excited about UR and transmute possibilities for wands now that we live in this brave new nonconsummable world. Your wand of wonder idea is really cool. Not to mention illiterative.

Would be neat to see UR+ wands have more damage and maybe even less restriction on uses per room.

How about a UR wand of elements that lets the user specify the element of the spell, a la the crown of elemental mastery? Or maybe it’s a transmute requiring one to mulch a wand of at least four different kinds of elements? Maybe the transmute path could look something like:
-UR Wand of Elements: 10 damage and pick your element
-Relic Greater Wand of Elements: 10 damage, pick your element, and infinite uses per room (requires UR wand and a bunch of rare wands of various elements to transmute)
-Legendary Eldritch Wand (or maybe Elder Wand???): 15 eldritch damage and infinite uses per room (requires relic wand and a bunch of rare wands of various elements to transmute)

I really, really, really like the idea of transmuting old charged wands into fancier relic (and even legendary???) wands. Would creates a convenient incentive to mulch the old charged wands out of existence (one of the stated goals for making things easier on DMs) while easing the pain of their new-found irrelevance (or less relevance, at least).


If there exists an infinite use damage wand, it wont only be charged wands that become irrelevant, non-charged wands will be just as useless.
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2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #17

kurtreznor wrote:

Boilerplate wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d like to see a cycle of holy swords since we most likely are going to hell next year. It seems like a good year theme wise at least.

Also since wands are no longer consumables, possibly a UR or relic wand of wonder. Effect is specific to each room and changes from con to con. I’m not sure if that is too much work or not but sounds fun. Either way the new wand rule gives some new design space.


Love this. I’ve been excited about UR and transmute possibilities for wands now that we live in this brave new nonconsummable world. Your wand of wonder idea is really cool. Not to mention illiterative.

Would be neat to see UR+ wands have more damage and maybe even less restriction on uses per room.

How about a UR wand of elements that lets the user specify the element of the spell, a la the crown of elemental mastery? Or maybe it’s a transmute requiring one to mulch a wand of at least four different kinds of elements? Maybe the transmute path could look something like:
-UR Wand of Elements: 10 damage and pick your element
-Relic Greater Wand of Elements: 10 damage, pick your element, and infinite uses per room (requires UR wand and a bunch of rare wands of various elements to transmute)
-Legendary Eldritch Wand (or maybe Elder Wand???): 15 eldritch damage and infinite uses per room (requires relic wand and a bunch of rare wands of various elements to transmute)

I really, really, really like the idea of transmuting old charged wands into fancier relic (and even legendary???) wands. Would creates a convenient incentive to mulch the old charged wands out of existence (one of the stated goals for making things easier on DMs) while easing the pain of their new-found irrelevance (or less relevance, at least).


If there exists an infinite use damage wand, it wont only be charged wands that become irrelevant, non-charged wands will be just as useless.


I still think the one use per room rule would apply.

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2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #18

One use per room is already somewhat broken. A wand with unlimited uses per room seems totally broken, even at legendary. Especially now that we are starting to get tokens that modify wand damage.

Unless maybe if they were rays that required a slide to hit.

I was going to suggest limiting relic and legendary to number of times per room as URs in the recipe, but once you get to three that’s essentially unlimited, except maybe in Nightmare Grind.

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte

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2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #19

kurtreznor wrote:
If there exists an infinite use damage wand, it wont only be charged wands that become irrelevant, non-charged wands will be just as useless.


I’m not sure I agree with that. First off, presumably one could use charged and chargeless wands in the transmute process, thereby getting value out of them. Second, the key would be calibrating the transmute recipes so that regular wands are still viable (note that I didn’t suggest infinite use below the relic level). Third, isn’t this the case with most relics and legendaries - that they render obsolete their lesser versions for those that are willing to commit to the upgrade? All this proposal is trying to do is create a transmute path for wands that is similar to weapons.

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2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #20

Boilerplate wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:
If there exists an infinite use damage wand, it wont only be charged wands that become irrelevant, non-charged wands will be just as useless.


I’m not sure I agree with that. First off, presumably one could use charged and chargeless wands in the transmute process, thereby getting value out of them. Second, the key would be calibrating the transmute recipes so that regular wands are still viable (note that I didn’t suggest infinite use below the relic level). Third, isn’t this the case with most relics and legendaries - that they render obsolete their lesser versions for those that are willing to commit to the upgrade? All this proposal is trying to do is create a transmute path for wands that is similar to weapons.


The idea of the charged wands getting a higher value is only if TD sees a value in getting as many as possible out of circulation. It was just a thought on how to incentivize that process.

My guess is they will not do that but it’s still interesting conversation fodder.

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2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #21

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[quote="If there exists an infinite use damage wand, it wont only be charged wands that become irrelevant, non-charged wands will be just as useless.[/quote]

Even with all of the damage bump tokens in the game, a wand is still only doing 15-18 damage a round. This is half what a fighter does or less and the fighter can slide again the next round. I have no problem with a wand being used every round. I also have no problem if the rules changed so that the Wizard or whoever, had to slide to hit with the wand.
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2019 Token Development 5 years 11 months ago #22

A legendary wand with unlimited uses is fine under current rules.

This is because all existing non-consumable wands now effectively have unlimited uses, you just need to bring 4-5 with you to overcome the 1/room restriction, combat doesn't go past 5 rounds.

There is precedent for exactly this sort of thing with thrown weapons being 1/room, except for the introduction of the legendary Thor's +5 Returning Hammer of Smiting, which may be thrown every round.

A Legendary wand that did 12 damage at base, had unlimited uses per room (still limited to the number of actions you have), and some other minor upside (instead do 6 to all monsters, or choose damage elemental damage type), and some drawback like requires 20 INT would not be game breaking at all, and would be line with other Legendaries.

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