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TOPIC: TDCC Needs YOU!!!!

TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #13

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: not worried about that.
Time is the biggest...then new coaches using this as a crutch and not knowing how to actually add the party card. That is what i am concerned about. If they rely on it. the group comes in and dumps tokens and they cant add stuff without the app. It will be a bigger nightmare for the DMs

coaches make mistakes. so do DMS, admin etc. I dont think this will fix it or help. I really think this would make it worse (in big groups or late groups)

then you will also have to explain why you took a pic of the armor and not the motor and pestal.


I do want to make sure you understand it is one photo for the entire character not one per token. Doing things this way will actually give coaches time to explain the game, and what the nifty mortar and pestal token actually does. Opposed to what I see today rush in rush out don't worry the guy in the training room will explain it all. And I am sorry but I have to agree to disagree TD cannot grow without adapting new ideas and ways of doing things
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Last edit: by Acherin.

TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #14

Acherin wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: not worried about that.
Time is the biggest...then new coaches using this as a crutch and not knowing how to actually add the party card. That is what i am concerned about. If they rely on it. the group comes in and dumps tokens and they cant add stuff without the app. It will be a bigger nightmare for the DMs

coaches make mistakes. so do DMS, admin etc. I dont think this will fix it or help. I really think this would make it worse (in big groups or late groups)

then you will also have to explain why you took a pic of the armor and not the motor and pestal.


I do want to make sure you understand it is one photo for the entire character not one per token. Doing things this way will actually give coaches time to explain the game, and what the nifty mortar and pestal token actually does. Opposed to what I see today rush in rush out don't worry the guy in the training room will explain it all. And I am sorry but I have to agree to disagree TD cannot grow without adapting new ideas and ways of doing things


that is different. I thought it was per token. So I stand corrected.

how long is the calculation take.
what happens if it cant read one or 2 tokens
you have peaked my interest now

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TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #15

Rizzen wrote:

Acherin wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: i cant see taking pictures, having it calculate for 10 people in 24 minutes.
inexperienced coaches will rely on it and not be able to function if it doesnt work or if the group shows up with 10 minutes to go


Well I can give you the other side of the coin on this. As a DM I can't tell you how many times a party card has come through incomplete or inaccurate. And as TD continues to expand we are getting more new volunteers, which is great but it comes at a cost. Coaches cannot all be expected to know every token to ever exist it's just not reasonable. I can also cite an example from our most recent show in San Antonio, a group came through with all token slot equipped but no pregenerated character sheets. It took every available coach to get that group through on time. This is meant as a tool and should be treated as such.


I have to agree I have not been playing as long as a lot of you here but my stats have been wrong more than half the time because of the couches not wanting to take the time..and even one time I was told not to worry that they would probably be giving me better stats than my build anyways...it's just a game so I have never really report it but I think having a tool like this could help a lot. Thank you for taking your time to do this


I don't know that I have coached you so I can't evaluate your experience. I have coached with a lot of people over the last 5 years. I have never seen anyone who did not "want to take the time." Running out of time can be an issue.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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Last edit: by Harlax.

TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #16

Acherin wrote:

Harlax wrote: Almost every coach needs help from time to time. The group that comes late. The group that dumps a bunch of tokens out and wants to take 20 minutes putting tokens on the mat. The group that comes late, dumps a bunch of tokens out and wants to take 20 minutes putting tokens on the mat.

Its okay to ask for help. We shouldn't shame coaches for doing so.


Again, not trying to discourage you. I know MasterEd was considering a similar concept at one point. You might pick his brain as well.


I have talked to Ed and really a lot of people about this already and have gotten some great feedback. Which is why I am floored at the level of opposition. so I guess I need to make this clear.

ATTENTION!!!
COACHES I AM NOT OUT TO TAKE YOUR JOBS


I am sorry if you interpreted my questions and comments as opposition. That was not my intention.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #17

The calculation takes about 5-10 seconds per character and that is tested using 25 unique tokens. If there are any tokens that are unknown then a count of unknown tokens is notified to the user (this will be enhanced over time) or if there are collisions such as two armor slots the program asked the coach to pick one for use.

I have tested quite a bit before going live with asking for images and I can create an entire party card in under a minute.
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TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #18

Yes, I have considered building an image detection system which would have various uses. I have also spoke with Fiddy who was doing the same but based off of moving video rather than still frame. I see the technological offering as an improvement in some areas and there are clearly some cases where it is not needed.

Any advanced group knowing how to setup a party card using an existing tool would not need this. These tools didn't displace coaches they make the coaches job easier and likely provide a more accurate result.

There are a number of newer players joining TD - look at PaxSouth. If they had a tool where they could go up and lay down their tokens and it would print out a player sheet (which the coach could use) it would certainly help.

If that same tool can be used by the coaches I am sure it would make their job easier. Is it a replacement for knowledgeable coaches - no. No computer (or token) yet can replace the human mind! ;-)

I see this as a valuable tool and with all tools we should just be careful where and how we use it. Having said that if people want to volunteer their time to scan images to make the tool better they certainly shouldn't be discouraged from doing so.

Relating to scanning I would suggest to just scan the token once and then automate the rotation of it so it is more productive. Also I am sure the scanned tokens would be desirable for the existing token resellers so they don't have to put up 'sample' ones. Lastly, I would suggest controlling access to that site to minimize nefarious people from pulling 'non-sample' images off.

Ed
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TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #19

Harlax wrote: I am sorry if you interpreted my questions and comments as opposition. That was not my intention.



No I am sorry I put more hours into this than I can count, and its hard to be pressed after you put so much time and devotion into something.

Emotions... yeah they are a thing
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TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #20

MasterED wrote: Yes, I have considered building an image detection system which would have various uses. I have also spoke with Fiddy who was doing the same but based off of moving video rather than still frame. I see the technological offering as an improvement in some areas and there are clearly some cases where it is not needed.

Any advanced group knowing how to setup a party card using an existing tool would not need this. These tools didn't displace coaches they make the coaches job easier and likely provide a more accurate result.

There are a number of newer players joining TD - look at PaxSouth. If they had a tool where they could go up and lay down their tokens and it would print out a player sheet (which the coach could use) it would certainly help.

If that same tool can be used by the coaches I am sure it would make their job easier. Is it a replacement for knowledgeable coaches - no. No computer (or token) yet can replace the human mind! ;-)

I see this as a valuable tool and with all tools we should just be careful where and how we use it. Having said that if people want to volunteer their time to scan images to make the tool better they certainly shouldn't be discouraged from doing so.

Relating to scanning I would suggest to just scan the token once and then automate the rotation of it so it is more productive. Also I am sure the scanned tokens would be desirable for the existing token resellers so they don't have to put up 'sample' ones. Lastly, I would suggest controlling access to that site to minimize nefarious people from pulling 'non-sample' images off.

Ed


Thanks Ed,
The image classifier really doesnt work all that well with the same image rotated, trust me I have tried. I can certainly make the drive invite only but to be honest I guess I need to sort if anyone is willing to help first.
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TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #21

it could be very helpful (since the coach wont have to take a pic of each token)
i was hung up on that.
it could be a great addition

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Last edit: by lazlo_hollyfeld1985.

TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #22

Acherin wrote:

Harlax wrote: I am sorry if you interpreted my questions and comments as opposition. That was not my intention.



No I am sorry I put more hours into this than I can count, and its hard to be pressed after you put so much time and devotion into something.

Emotions... yeah they are a thing


Well, I'll just repeat that I am not trying to discourage you, but to raise caution.

(And I am sometimes guilty of bad handwriting)
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #23

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Acherin wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: not worried about that.
Time is the biggest...then new coaches using this as a crutch and not knowing how to actually add the party card. That is what i am concerned about. If they rely on it. the group comes in and dumps tokens and they cant add stuff without the app. It will be a bigger nightmare for the DMs

coaches make mistakes. so do DMS, admin etc. I dont think this will fix it or help. I really think this would make it worse (in big groups or late groups)

then you will also have to explain why you took a pic of the armor and not the motor and pestal.


I do want to make sure you understand it is one photo for the entire character not one per token. Doing things this way will actually give coaches time to explain the game, and what the nifty mortar and pestal token actually does. Opposed to what I see today rush in rush out don't worry the guy in the training room will explain it all. And I am sorry but I have to agree to disagree TD cannot grow without adapting new ideas and ways of doing things


that is different. I thought it was per token. So I stand corrected.


I had the same misapprehension.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

TDCC Needs YOU!!!! 6 years 2 months ago #24

Pax south was my first time volunteering, so did assistant coach but ended up basically doing the job of coach most of the con (not a complaint at all).

I understand the math but I definitely like the idea of this. If for no other reason then to check my math when I’m in a rush due to late arrivals.

Next year coaching will be harder at pax since there will be a lot more players with that odd middle ground collections. Not enough to really feel the app is worth it, yet just enough to have a hard time deciding what to use and chewing up a lot of clock.

I will say I’m not going to be much help on tokens for your program, but I would be willing to help test it if you want that help.

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