TOPIC: Stu's +3 Handy Stein discussion

This post is inspired by Pstyle's thread in which he's selling this token for $70.

I think that is a steal. I checked ebay and they have sold in the $70 range there too. Why is this token so underrated?

First of all, it's the ONLY +3 Ultra Rare weapon. In my opinion to-hit is more valuable than damage. So this alone puts it on par with Relic weapons.

You might argue though, the damage is not very good. It's 5.5 average. However, for Ultra Rare +2 one-hand melee weapons, the best you can do is 7.5 avg (+2 Dread Sword, +2 Slayer Sword, +2 Viper Strike Fang, +2 War Shillelagh). So, the damage is really not that far off. I would easily trade 2 damage for 1 to-hit.

Third, it's usable by all classes. That is extremely flexible for a weapon. Sure, the VSF is pretty flexible too. However, if the monster is poison-immune the VSF damage is back to 5.5. It also costs $200. I will concede that the Stein is bad for Monks since they can't dual-wield it. But Rangers can use two Steins if they want!

Finally, it has the added benefit of drinking potions as a free action. Nothing spectacular, but still a nice little extra effect. Even if the token didn't have that, I'd still think it was great though.

So, why is Stu's +3 Handy Stein not more popular amongst UR-level players?

I have two of them myself... I built a "Drunken Master" monk for effect... thought it would be cool...

I ended up paying much more than the $70 asking price, but like the theme.

All your points are valid, but I think the free action is inconvenient.

If you attack with another weapon, then switch to Stein, you can't drink until next round. If you're using a weapon towards a set bonus (Viper or Might) you can't attack in that round, so there's a potentially wasted standard action.

If you're a caster, you can't cast in the same round as you quaff since your hands must be empty or holding a focus weapon, so that's another standard action potentially down the drain.

Unless you want to just chug three pots while you're at it.

So it's not a bad token, but it has limitations. Plus, I hazard that a lot of people got them, so there's probably a bit of an over-supply as some people realize they didn't get as much out of it as they'd expected to.

Jeff, I really like the token also, and have bought several for my group. Since I outfit the whole group, I don't want to get everyone Relic and/or Legendary weapon tokens, because of the risk of one of them getting lost or misplaced - plus it's an affordable way to get players +3 to hit.

It also seems ideal for polymorphing Druids, as it lets them drink their polymorph potion as a free action, and then they get +3 to hit in their Polymorph form.

I think it is likely so low value because most people that are going to get a UR weapon go ahead and get a Relic/Legendary weapon. I think rarities are shifting down a notch - UR's are the new Rares, and most people want something better than that. UR's like the Dread Sword (once the best Melee weapon in existence) are now selling for $70 or less now as well.

I think its far less complicated.
I think weapons are among the least sought after of the URs pretty much every set, with only a few exceptions those being ones that have an upgrade path.

We've started adding "bonus features" on the weapons to make them more useful and its helping but really you need 1 good weapon maybe 2 as a backup, odds are you already have them and you're just waiting for something better. If you have a legendary you're going to be waiting a very long time. This means fewer and fewer UR buyers are interested in weapons. New players are interested sure, but shortly after that they move on.

We try pretty hard to keep power creep in check when it comes to weapons we seem to be most effective. the avg cap at 7.5 has been there for a while now. So this means even less incentive to upgrade and since weapons are made every year there are tons of them floating around but mostly people are after the best of the best.

TLDR ?
Low demand High Supply

I agree the stein is nice.

A drop from ~$100 to $70 isn't too bad for depreciation. consider older weapons maybe fetch $50

I think it's the best UR weapon.

That being said - people who are willing to acquire UR weapons often don't stop there - so the big money for collectors won't flow here, just as it wouldn't flow to the best R or UC weapon.

I could imagine this token appreciating, as any theoretical "BiS" build should have one, since it can be included in any build and used for it's quaff effect in a corner case. By this I simply mean any build can only be improved by adding this, even if it is never used (like Censer of Sacrifice).

Valetutto hit the nail on the head: UR weapons aren't worth much unless they are clearly BiS, or part of a transmute path.

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, I really like the token also, and have bought several for my group. Since I outfit the whole group, I don't want to get everyone Relic and/or Legendary weapon tokens, because of the risk of one of them getting lost or misplaced - plus it's an affordable way to get players +3 to hit.

I almost mentioned that, it seems like a good token for loaning out. I have one and will use it for that when needed.

Mike Steele wrote: It also seems ideal for polymorphing Druids, as it lets them drink their polymorph potion as a free action, and then they get +3 to hit in their Polymorph form.

I haven't played Druid so I didn't think of that but it does sound perfect for that purpose.


I understand everyone's point regarding higher end players skipping it and go to the relic level. If you're going to go for relic tokens at all, probably one of the first ones you get will be a weapon. But for someone with a rare build, and maybe a few URs, this is a great weapon. Even more so for someone who wants to play multiple classes.

Thanks to Matthew Hayward, Stu's Stein was my first UR. It is an incredibly solid all-rounder, but I think more people build for min-maxing, and that would mean more damage, or have an upgrade path.

If you've seen me around though, You'll know I play a drunken dwarven fighter, and dual wield Stu's Stein and Brawler's Mug for a ton of fun even if not min maxed.

That reminds me, with token's coming out soon and holiday budget crunch over, I need to see if i can find a good deal on Belt of Thorns or maybe even Kilt of Tavernbane

I will have to politely disagree with you, Damage is far more important than a plus 1 to hit. Sliding is far easier than dealing damage and every point from every hit is vitally important. Very few boards are truly hard to hit.

archmage78 wrote: I will have to politely disagree with you, Damage is far more important than a plus 1 to hit. Sliding is far easier than dealing damage and every point from every hit is vitally important. Very few boards are truly hard to hit.

in the regular dungeon yes...in grind, no I will take a higher to hit, to make sure i hit. if you dont hit, you cant do damage(well for the most part...few exceptions)

I’ll confirm: in my mid-level Polymorph build this was a great solution.

I could use with Bull’s Strength or Leaping Potion, depending on need, then the polymorph, was consistently useful.

Even on the rounds I did casting damage, I was often able to make use of a Thor’s Retort or something helpful.

Also, since I don’t use the damage wheel as polymorph, I completely do not care about the low damage.