TOPIC: How to improve 2 handed weapons?

Traditionally the tradeoff for using a 2-handed weapon is sacrificing AC (no shield) for more damage & right now it seems there's no reason to do that. There are far more viable & functional (cool ability/set bonus) 1-hander & shield/Orb of Might options.

That being said, I agree with Darkangel in that the easiest way to increase the usefulness of 2-handers would be to make any new 2-handers just plain hit harder. Either the traditional (str bonus x 1.5) D&D formula or improved damage dials, thereby not drastically increasing the amount of math the coaches have to do when calculating the party card, which should also be a consideration... Not overly complicating the process.

I also agree that giving select 2-handers unique & USEFUL abilities would be a great enticement, be it sundering, vorpal (x3-4 damage on a 20-slide), Holy (bonus dmg against evil monsters) or whatever...

I don't feel it's all that necessary to improve 2-handed weapons though if a change is made, it cannot be yet another bump to tokens. If you want to give 2-handed weapons a boost, it should be somethingn applied evenly across all two-handed weapons. The easiest one to apply would be giving all of them a +2 dam bonus or somesuch. In general, two-handed weapons already have better abilities than one-handed weapons. A good one-handed weapon ability sacrifices damage wheel. 3.5 instead of 4.5 usually or +1 instead of +2. Most of the two-handeds are 5.5 standard with +2 and an ability. Club of bashing, holy great sword, etc, adding a possible 3 more.

Incognito wrote:
Maybe a 2-handed weapon of Might or, on the extreme side (which might be too much) a Mithral + Might 2-hander.

How about a one Set 2-Handed weapon that transmutes into a two set 2-Handed Weapon:

+2 Templar War Sledge
[3-5-5-7-7-9-9-11-11-13-13-14]
Ignores all special defenses of Outsiders
Barbarian, Cleric, Fighter, Paladin

+3 Templar War Sledge Of Might
[3-5-5-7-7-9-9-11-11-13-13-14]
Ignores all special defenses of Outsiders (counts for both Might and Templar sets)
Barbarian, Cleric, Fighter, Paladin

henwy wrote: I don't feel it's all that necessary to improve 2-handed weapons though if a change is made, it cannot be yet another bump to tokens. If you want to give 2-handed weapons a boost, it should be somethingn applied evenly across all two-handed weapons. The easiest one to apply would be giving all of them a +2 dam bonus or somesuch. In general, two-handed weapons already have better abilities than one-handed weapons. A good one-handed weapon ability sacrifices damage wheel. 3.5 instead of 4.5 usually or +1 instead of +2. Most of the two-handeds are 5.5 standard with +2 and an ability. Club of bashing, holy great sword, etc, adding a possible 3 more.

So then you'd prefer something more along the lines of a modified Str adjustment for 2-handers, say my original suggestion of +(str modifier x 1.5 or 2) to damage? That would be fairly easy to apply across the board to 2-handers & make them hit significantly harder, which to my mind is the entire point of using a big 'ol beatstick anyway. Plus it would go a long way towards un-obsoleting several of the older weapons...

I like it.

JJsylph30 wrote: So then you'd prefer something more along the lines of a modified Str adjustment for 2-handers, say my original suggestion of +(str modifier x 1.5 or 2) to damage? That would be fairly easy to apply across the board to 2-handers & make them hit significantly harder, which to my mind is the entire point of using a big 'ol beatstick anyway. Plus it would go a long way towards un-obsoleting several of the older weapons...

The problem is that it's a new rule that is likely to complicate things especially for those who don't keep up with the rules.

I think we're stuck with the character cards for awhile, but one simple fix would be to give the Fighters/Barbarian/Paladin an extra + damage with two-handers.

I don't mind if the Clerics/Druid/Wizards get more of a reason to use two-handed quarterstaves (though the +2 Staff of Power is already competitive) but I don't think this is the higher priority.

Please DO NOT do a 1.5 or 2 x modifier for STR because that's just more math that is going to be messy. "So we don't include the Crown of Might bonus but we do include the Girdle of Might?" I'm actually pretty good at math but it's just going to make the player coach's life that much harder.

*If* we were going to go the blanket route (instead of better 2-handed weapons in the future) then I'd rather just have a simple "all 2-handed weapons get an extra +X damage." A flat amount that is easy to add to the character card.

If we're going with some kind of blanket rule to keep the math simple please please please print it as an ability on the relevant classes cards. Invisible rules aren't going to do anyone any good when it comes to not confusing the newbies.

Picc wrote: If we're going with some kind of blanket rule to keep the math simple please please please print it as an ability on the relevant classes cards. Invisible rules aren't going to do anyone any good when it comes to not confusing the newbies.

That would be the ideal situation.

But unfortunately, I think we may be stuck with the same character cards for another year or two (depends on how many TD ordered), so I'm not sure how feasible it is to add it in.

Maybe print it on the token mats instead?

I'd say Character level - 1 to damage with two-handed weapons.

Also, just to clarify things for new players like myself, am I correct in assuming that the little hand/claw markers @ the bottom of weapon & shield tokens determine the # of hands they occupy?

I suspect that the main reason not as many 2-handed weapons are being used is many people need one or both of the hand slots for the Orb and/or Scepter of Might to reach 5th Level.

Next year people will be able to reach 5th Level via the new Amulet. And in 2015 people will be able to reach 5th Level via the Ring or Charm. Once those options are there, I suspect there will be quite a few more 2-handed weapons being used without any other fix required.

At the end of the day simply make the new batch of two handed weapons have a one point damage increase the wheel. Yes it makes them better then previous two handed weapons but this doesn't add more rules, more math for the coaches and more bureaucracy to annoy players. The game has moved in that direction, one handed weapons are simply better, it doesn't unbalance the game if two handed weapons simply do what the one handers are doing, getting better.

archmage78 wrote: At the end of the day simply make the new batch of two handed weapons have a one point damage increase the wheel. Yes it makes them better then previous two handed weapons but this doesn't add more rules, more math for the coaches and more bureaucracy to annoy players. The game has moved in that direction, one handed weapons are simply better, it doesn't unbalance the game if two handed weapons simply do what the one handers are doing, getting better.

I think this is an elegant solution. The only caveat being the Brawler's Mug which, essentially, does what you're describing only slightly more better.