TOPIC: Dungeon Etiquette and Bad PC Behavior

One thing I've noticed on these forums, is the lack of discussion of bad behavior from some of the players; Nightmare players on Normal level, -- and especially people who have gone through a puzzle room prior, get impatient and give away the clues to the rest of the party. My son and I have encountered this more than once at the last Origins.

I'd urge you to read some of the reddit posts on the Gencon forums... There's a lot of similar complaints.

Maybe this discussion has been had before, if so I haven't seen it, but I think it'd be good to have it again.

-- Is there a way of having the coach, room GM, or companion remind all of the players to have good etiquette and not ruing the game for the rest of the players?
... If you're bored, and don't want to wait for the other players to figure out the puzzle that may make you happy, but will frustrate everyone else! I assume the puzzle GM can't intervene, but what else could be done?

-- If you have a crazy OP character that can do 60pts of damage in a single hit, maybe stand back and let the others have some fun before you squish the boss at the end??

I'm not saying that this happens all the time, but if you read reddit enough it will seem so. And I can confirm that it's happened to me and my fiends (some will not play again because of it, -- some had a great time!)

I'm not trying to complain, I'd just like some thoughts on how we can improve these issues I've seen.

Eric McGlohon wrote: One thing I've noticed on these forums, is the lack of discussion of bad behavior from some of the players; Nightmare players on Normal level, -- and especially people who have gone through a puzzle room prior, get impatient and give away the clues to the rest of the party. My son and I have encountered this more than once at the last Origins.

I'd urge you to read some of the reddit posts on the Gencon forums... There's a lot of similar complaints.

Maybe this discussion has been had before, if so I haven't seen it, but I think it'd be good to have it again.

-- Is there a way of having the coach, room GM, or companion remind all of the players to have good etiquette and not ruing the game for the rest of the players?
... If you're bored, and don't want to wait for the other players to figure out the puzzle that may make you happy, but will frustrate everyone else! I assume the puzzle GM can't intervene, but what else could be done?

-- If you have a crazy OP character that can do 60pts of damage in a single hit, maybe stand back and let the others have some fun before you squish the boss at the end??

I'm not saying that this happens all the time, but if you read reddit enough it will seem so. And I can confirm that it's happened to me and my fiends (some will not play again because of it, -- some had a great time!)

I'm not trying to complain, I'd just like some thoughts on how we can improve these issues I've seen.

if you dig deeper you will see al kinds of posts. the problem is a majority of people are sensitive to other.

the few bad apples do ruin it for everyone.

when there were treasure stamps, it happened a lot more. that has been fixed. it is a lot better now that those are a thing of the past

There has been pretty thorough discussion of this topic in the past.

I hope I am not part of the problem... I try to do a bit of role play and do other interesting “attacks” so allow the rest to take down the monster...

I limit the tokens I lend because I don’t want to discourage people (usually lend out Torso slots and maybe a figurine or two, other than Treasure Enhancers).

If someone sees me doing something that may contribute to this, I hope they let me know... I try to be a good ambassador for the game... end encourage participation. I won’t spoil a puzzle, even if it means we take push damage but try to help out when asked. But that can be a hard balancing act...

Don't take this as an attack or dismissal or anything, but we get this post or one like it every year. The vets on here are not the ones causing the problems. For the most part we are very sensitive as to how we are viewed by newer players. In most cases we usually keep to our own groups as to not spoil anyone fun. In the cases where we do find ourselves in mixed groups we tend to try to let first timers take the lead.

Harlax wrote: There has been pretty thorough discussion of this topic in the past.

Can you please point me to it?

Picc wrote: Don't take this as an attack or dismissal or anything, but we get this post or one like it every year. The vets on here are not the ones causing the problems. For the most part we are very sensitive as to how we are viewed by newer players. In most cases we usually keep to our own groups as to not spoil anyone fun. In the cases where we do find ourselves in mixed groups we tend to try to let first timers take the lead.

I'm not trying to accuse anyone here -- I'd expect the experienced players to behave well. But I'm hoping to have a discussion on how to improve the situation I'm seeing. -- If this isn't the right place to have this conversation, where is? [not rhetorical]

Mongo wrote: I hope I am not part of the problem... I try to do a bit of role play and do other interesting “attacks” so allow the rest to take down the monster...

I limit the tokens I lend because I don’t want to discourage people (usually lend out Torso slots and maybe a figurine or two, other than Treasure Enhancers).

If someone sees me doing something that may contribute to this, I hope they let me know... I try to be a good ambassador for the game... end encourage participation. I won’t spoil a puzzle, even if it means we take push damage but try to help out when asked. But that can be a hard balancing act...

I have seen a lot of really good ambassadors to the game! I think most experienced players are aware of the fun level of the group. What I'm talking about is the not-so experienced players (mid-level? don't know) who aren't aware (or don't care) about the other player's experience. Unfortunately, those people are out there.


...I'm sorry I've stepped into a hornet's nest on a sensitive subject. I'm just trying to be constructive.

Ultimately we cannot do anything though about a bad player if they want to be that type of player. If it is someone that doesn't know they are doing it they are likely not on the forums.

I think it is fine to bring up the topic. But as others have said it is something that has been brought up before.

If one of us sees it happening I think it is up to that individual how they decide to handle it. I don't think there is a silver bullet in the manner.

At this point when running normal on a dungeon I know the answers to, I tend to play Rogue. I tell the group I’ll get them all the clues from the Rogue boxes and I’ll do what ever they ask me too but I will not tell them the answer.
I also typically don’t use armor on those runs either.

It is real easy for me to give only the basic help I mentioned above when you have all new players with one or two experienced players. The problem is when you have a run with 1 to 5 new players and the rest know the answer. I was one of those new players a few years back and found it’s just as big a issue when most of the group is unwilling to help. The truth is there is no easy answer.

I normally play paladin on the hardcore or nightmare build so that is what I have mostly purchased tokens to optimize.

I believe I am, and have always been, very considerate of others regarding puzzles. But I have definitely seen what you have described, where a player ruins it for others who had not already solved it. I personally try to make sure this doesn't happen in any runs that I'm on. I will tell others that I already know how to solve the puzzle and I won't help unless they collectively want help (e.g. directing me) or a clue.

Years ago, when I first started getting into tokens, I did show up to a run or two with random groups and a Nightmare-level build. It turns out wasn't fun to be overpowered. But perhaps others need to learn the same lesson. These days, if I'm playing Normal or Hardcore, I use the pre-built characters that I sell so that I'm at a similar power level as other players.

I also don't like when veterans overwhelm newbies with things like combat strategy, lending of tokens, etc. If you want to lend tokens, be sure to show up nice and early, and make it a very casual offer. If somebody takes you up on it, I suggest just loaning a few key tokens and make sure you don't loan anything complicated (e.g. the Mad Evoker's Charm).

Eric McGlohon wrote: ...I'm sorry I've stepped into a hornet's nest on a sensitive subject. I'm just trying to be constructive.

No need to apologize and I don't think you have stepped on a hornets nest at all (IMHO); however, i do believe you may have identified the root cause yourself...

...who aren't aware (or don't care) about the other player's experience...

Unfortunately, I don't believe it has anything to do with skill or experience, some people are just dicks and don't (or won't) play nice with others.