TOPIC: Unfortunate Token Predator News

Beertram wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I think it is absolutely very detailed, and accurate. That said, even in a huge format, it will certainly be confusing for new players, and will lead to a lot of questions of the staff.

It may still be worth it, at least in some form, but I think a simple sign that says, "Tokens are collectible, be sure to get multiple opinions before selling or buying" at the epilogue room might be enough.

Maybe someone more artistic can streamline it a bit and make it less confusing. I have only been playing 5 years and I would say I was 100% confused on transmutes and any tokens other than C/UC/R/UR's for at least 2 of them and then still moderately confused for another year. Had there been a poster like this available then (with good examples and QR link barcodes), I would have had a better understanding of the tokens more quickly.

You're still doing a lot better than me! I would say I've been playing for 14, and really just got this stuff about 2 years ago.....

I love the idea of QR codes, so those who are truly interested can get more information without disrupting the staff.

bpsymington wrote:

edwin wrote: What about combining Ravens

Commons can be valued in pennies,
Uncommons in dimes,
Rares in dollars,
Ultra-rares in Tens of dollars,
Relics in Hundreds,
and Legendaries can be over $1000.

with getting a second or third opinion?

I think (just my opinion) that Jeff doesn't want to assign any cash values to any TD tokens, even as general as this.

What about GP values instead? Something like:

Ultra rares (purple) - 4-6,000
Trophies - 300-400
Rares - (red) 100-250
Uncommon - (green) 50-100
Commons - (black) 10-20

Tokens on anything other than grey or gold disks - get multiple opinions. Values can range between 100gp to 100,000gp.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

bpsymington wrote:

edwin wrote: What about combining Ravens

Commons can be valued in pennies,
Uncommons in dimes,
Rares in dollars,
Ultra-rares in Tens of dollars,
Relics in Hundreds,
and Legendaries can be over $1000.

with getting a second or third opinion?

I think (just my opinion) that Jeff doesn't want to assign any cash values to any TD tokens, even as general as this.

What about GP values instead? Something like:

Ultra rares (purple) - 4-6,000
Trophies - 300-400
Rares - (red) 100-250
Uncommon - (green) 50-100
Commons - (black) 10-20

Tokens on anything other than grey or gold disks - get multiple opinions. Values can range between 100gp to 100,000gp.

That seems just as subjective (or more so since you have the price of gold as well). Also is anyone going to have 10-20 GP pieces with our current commons being the 50 GP. Okay maybe some would but I think you know what I mean.

I liked whomever suggested just saying tokens are a collectible as such they can vary in price from less than a buck to a few thousand dollars. List the rarities maybe how rare they are and suggest getting a second opinion on prices. And maybe a third (or fourth) opinion if the rarity is above X or Y.

I didn't mention the price of gold, did I? Didn't mean to.

And I agree, there should not be an "official price guide." But Jeff has set some defacto exchange rates already. The units for trade goods (6C = 2UC = 1R) and "trophy = 300 GP" are set in the recipes, which was the basis for the ranges I tossed out.

Everything is subjective. Whether I'm being too subjective is subjective.

Even just saying, "In general, Orange > red > Tooth > purple > trophy > red > green > black" is subjective, but it doesn't give any indication of the magnitude of difference.

I think it's a disservice to say "some tokens are worth hundreds" without some indication what those are, or some people will be running around breathlessly asking "what about this one?" with every draw.

Lots to consider, and I don't know the answer. Assuming we can't just throw blanket parties for all the predators, I'm sure we all want newbies to be inoculated against them to the maximum practical extent.

Not sure the best way to do that.

I think really the chart needs to convey only one thing:

* Some tokens may be worth more than a few bucks and so you should seek market prices for them.

As a bonus, it could also convey: some tokens aren't worth anything really.

So, maybe something that is more in line with rarity distribution:

* Commons - 7 / 10
* Uncommons - 2 / 10
* Rares - 1 / 10
* Ultra Rares - 1/1,000
* Monster Trophy - Treasure Reward Only!
* Blue, Brown, Green, Orange backed - Special!

That chart should convey to anyone with sense that anything below the "Rares" line is worth getting checked out.

Kirk Bauer wrote: Something Ed and I have started doing that could become a standard practice, is we will independently offer blind bids, and then seller can pick the one they like best. We didn't do this much or even intentionally at Origins, but when we did it worked out well.

One time somebody had a token and I made them an offer and then told them that Ed is likely more interested in the token than I would be. So I told them to not mention my offer and get an offer from Ed, and then they can pick the best one. They did, and sure enough Ed beat my offer (that he didn't know about) and bought the token.

Another time it was quite the opposite. I just showed up from a food break and somebody showed me a relic they pulled. I made them an offer and they took it (Ed was busy so I didn't think to send them to him). Later Ed asked me what I paid and told me it was slightly more than his offer, and that he had told the person to get a second offer from me.

Perhaps at GenCon Ed and I can do this more formally therefore making sure that newbies have at least two solid offers on a token. But of course I wouldn't want to run afoul of any GenCon regulations. I was actually thinking about offering only trades or store credit during GenCon hours instead of cash. The person could contact me after GenCon and get a PayPal for the store credit. But I think this would put me at a disadvantage if other people are making cash offers.

Future historians will look back at this and say "And thus the great Token Syndicate was formed. It would not be long till the other giants of token trading joined the syndicate insuring it's world domination!"


Edit: Kirk, and Ed are both great traders that I trust completely!

I remember my first TD run I pulled a Ring of Improved Evasion (granted now I realize that the treasure was loaded that year so nothing special lol) But as a beginner it took me FOREVER to find out the rarity of the token because I didn't know what blue was. Maybe just something to let people know the rarities is enough. Maybe an asterisk with a notation saying that tokens are collectible and just like other collectibles prices will vary. Make sure you get multiple offers before making a spontaneous trade.

The chart should also remind people it is against Con rules to sell your tokens on site.

True hero of time (THOT) wrote: The chart should also remind people it is against Con rules to sell your tokens on site.

That is a GenCon rule to enforce and not necessarily a True Dungeon rule to enforce. So that should be on a GenCon sign and not on a TD poster. TD could of course put a disclaimer warning players to follow all local laws and rules when trading or selling tokens.

Matthew Hayward wrote: * Commons - 7 / 10
* Uncommons - 2 / 10
* Rares - 1 / 10
* Ultra Rares - 1/1,000
* Monster Trophy - Treasure Reward Only!
* Blue, Brown, Green, Orange backed - Special!

This seems perfect for newbies, except to add the text color for the first four. I always though the plat tokens were rare, and couldn't figure out why they didn't seem better.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: * Commons - 7 / 10
* Uncommons - 2 / 10
* Rares - 1 / 10
* Ultra Rares - 1/1,000
* Monster Trophy - Treasure Reward Only!
* Blue, Brown, Green, Orange backed - Special!

This seems perfect for newbies, except to add the text color for the first four. I always though the plat tokens were rare, and couldn't figure out why they didn't seem better.

I was picturing a chart with a picture of a representative token at each rarity, with the rarity underneath them - and possibly a note next to UR with "These are vaulable!" (but no more specific than that), "These are really valuable!" next to the greens, and "ZOMG SUPER VALUABLE!!" by the oranges.

This is why I love this community. When a problem arises that could impact others enjoyment of the game, solutions are explored and discussed civilly.

Love the poster ideas being tossed around. I think something good will come of it.

I'm in the camp of not having any official TD posters posting any numbers tied to values, whether gold or dollars. Doing that would seem to give a set value and might lead to unrealistic expectations. Using words or symbols instead of actual numbers to give a general idea of rarity and potential value is the way to go IMO.

Of course, posters don't help if they aren't printed and then placed somewhere well lit and in the open where players can see them and examine them without causing a massive traffic jam. And even then, posters are only effective if people stop to read them.

Last year or the year prior, TD's epilogue room handed out business cards with the website info on them. Perhaps the token rarity info we are discussing could be condensed to business card size and handed out with the token bags? That way new players have something to reference while they are actually examining their tokens in the coaching room. Positive reinforcement at the moment of physical handling of the subject matter. Psychology and learning techniques at work! Plus the player then has something actually on their person that they can examine later back at the hotel or during downtime or off-season, that could have the forum website on it? Then it would point to where they can find out more information within the trusted community.