TOPIC: Token Price Guide Feedback

George,

Granted the bonus is significant, but my thinking in the initial pricing was that (basically) only Rogues can use. Although other classes can use it, the bonus is not tangible. Thus, there might not be the same demand for this item as say the +1 Amulet that everyone can use and will likely want.

Thoughts?
-Douglas

Also the sneak attack will not be possible in all combat situations - that would be my bet anyway!

Also the sneak attack will not be possible in all combat situations - that would be my bet anyway!

Hopefully they won't follow the d20 rule in which you can't sneak attack undead.

Hmm,

I don't really agree with that. I think that the rogue's token is ok and fairly worth 50. Thinking about the two class specific tokens, the bard token might be the one that needs to be adjusted. It's like giving everyone half a magic weapon and it stacks with magic weapons. That's a rockin' token.
Also, I think the cloak of elvenkind is really a double edged sword. It allows you to sit out of combat. Well, it seems to me, that the only way to win combats in time before the time runs out is for everyone to fight in concert. Otherwise, players without the cloak will get focused attacks and die and the whole party is made weaker, and the party might not even finish a room due to the extended combats. In my opinion, only a coward would pay 200 gp for it.

We have, in the past, followed the convention that you can not use a sneak attack on undead.

I will have to talk to Jeff about this, but as a DM I might be inclined to let a Rogue with Elven cloak and boots sneak up on a monster (not undead) even if the room would not allow such a thing (e.g. brightly lit, no cover, and monster can see all party members).

Dave

Hmm,
Also, I think the cloak of elvenkind is really a double edged sword. It allows you to sit out of combat. Well, it seems to me, that the only way to win combats in time before the time runs out is for everyone to fight in concert. Otherwise, players without the cloak will get focused attacks and die and the whole party is made weaker, and the party might not even finish a room due to the extended combats. In my opinion, only a coward would pay 200 gp for it.

Yes it is a double edged sword, but the feature does not have to be used. In addition, it might be a nice to have to give to that almost dead party member (when you are out of healing) to keep them from being attacked (at least most of the time).

Dave

Dave,

I assume that with the Cloak of Elvenkind, a player may remove themselves from combat and explore the room or would this attract the attention of the enemy?

-Douglas

Hmm, I don't really agree with that.

Fair enough. What does everyone else think?

Dave,

I assume that with the Cloak of Elvenkind, a player may remove themselves from combat and explore the room or would this attract the attention of the enemy?

-Douglas

The guide says it only works if you stand still.

True, The guide indicates that the person must remain fairly still, however, and again I would have to see what Jeff says (not online at the moment) but if I were to allow the Rogue to sneak up in an otherwise open room, I might be inclined to allow that same rogue to look around the room. I am not sure the rest of the clumsy human party would cut it however.

One more to ponder for the FAQ or version 1.2 of the guide.

Dave

Or perhaps there is a standing rule that more or less anyone can "run away" and take themselves out of comabt.

I don't remember if this was ever done at SoCal but I do remember that the Rogue while helping the Fighter escape the web was not subjected to an attack from the Spider.

-Douglas

Anyone can effectively remove themselves from combat (if the room provides space) by leaving combat. The monster would have to take an extra round to reach that person if the DM was really sadistic. Frankly, I had too much going on to worry about it. So if someone said they were not involved in melee, I forgot about them, until I had killed the rest of the party :twisted: .

The cloak comes in handy in a crowded space where there just is not enough room to "remove' youself from combat. The cloak would also keep any really sadistic, ahem.. DM from taking an attack of opportunity.

I see this as being similar to initiative, it depends on the room, party, and monster. If the room is set up with the monster waiting and looking right at the entrance and the pary walks right in, then rolling initiative to me seems pointless. Similarly depending on the room, party, and monster. How a DM dealt with someone wearing a cloak (within reason) would also have to depend.

IMHO, I think we would want to be cautious about nailing down every possible contingency for any one token. If we do, the DMs will have way to much information to remember, and the entire adventure will break down in debate over when a token can an can't be used and where. Since we only have 12 minutes or so for each room and DM, we do not have the benefit of dragging along a milk crate of manuals and calling time-out on the adventure (everyone refills glasses and chip bowls) while one of the party and the DM has a knock down drag out about a rule.

Sorry for the rant at the end.

Dave