TOPIC: Amulet of Treasure Finding -Possibility of reprint

Hate on me all you want. In the end, you* pays your money and you takes your chances. It's your decision.
Nobody promised the tokens you speculated on would pay off in the future.
Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to buy tokens.

• You could have bought zero AotFs
• You could have bought a few AotFs
• You could have bought one hundred AotFs
• You could have bought others tokens in whatever quantity your heart desired
• You can buy no tokens and hope the secondary market can supply your needs

There's always going to be risk.


*in the general sense; not referring to a specific individual

Matt wrote: While i extremely don't like this effective/quasi 'reserve' list i'm hoping that by alluding to a functional reprint said new token will and can be used in the future transmute. Long as there is an alternate recipe i'm okay, see CoA. Otherwise it's time for a sell off as this burns a lot of mid range players who didn't grab one or didn't know it existed before hand. Seems we're in a player acquisition stage between the various new cons why would we want to handicap.

I'm not saying make stuff 'cheap (and that's a moving target/demographic #) but at least for something that affects token/run economics this stuff should be available. In the end of CoA you could make all the points buy soaking up AoTF, you still couldn't make one for less than i think 700 at the time. Just so people know there is a viable path to acquire what many consider must have long term tokens.

Hi Matt,

I hear your pain and agree that there needs to be a way for newer players to join the treasure fun. I would point out two things. First, we are seeing the Ioun Stone TE coming out, so next year will see the Ioun Stone Gold Nugget providing 2 additional treasure pulls, so there are ways available for new players to get more than 3 pulls. The Ioun Stone Silver Nugget is available today as a Pick-Your-Purp. Cloak of Many Pockets and Lenses of Fortune are Rares that provide 1 extra pull, but are not compatible with the Ioun Stones or CoA.

The second point is a bit of history. The original TE was the Horn of Plenty from 2007. The second was the Ring of Riches in 2013, with Charm of Good Fortune in 2013. The original CoA was first available in 2015 and required all 3 TE tokens plus 6000 gp. Assuming you were purchasing Pick-Your-Purp in those years, it was $750 plus 6000gp, and have been playing for 8 years. The point system came about after the AoTF came out, and ended up being about 6 months later if memory serves, but without a HoP, it was more expensive to make the points.

Ok, long story, not quite as long, it took anywhere from $750-$1000 to make a CoA. I see a CoA on sale on Trent's store for $1300, so not that much more than it took to make originally. Either way, this is a sizeable investment to get the extra pulls. I have no doubt that come 2023 (2 years after the last Ioun Stone) we will see another TE like the earlier ones, but they will likely require playing for several years and investment to make them happen.

In the mean time, enjoy the game. Good luck!

MasterED wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Does your lack of sympathy apply to both gambles?

Most definitely

Yes because a person can choose to not spend any money on tokens and then they won't be gambling.

Ed

That could also be a form of gambling if you decide you want one later and it costs more. Unless you mean never spend any money on any tokens, which probably doesn't apply to anyone participating in these discussions.

From a newbie's perspective I personally enjoy certain things not being reprinted. In my eyes it makes tokens worth something from a non monetary perspective. Gambles/investments are always up to the individual to spend the cash to get into things. Pans out or not is a crapshoot(sorry if this word is banned, I'll edit at mods request). However I view TD and its tokens in a more personal way. My wife and I are working our way up to better tokens and hope to get what we need in time to transmute some relics to someday turn into legendaries. We don't think legendaries would be legendary if they were so easy to get. I'm sure everyone would love a CoA but then whats the point of its legendary status? I hope TD is around 10 years and more from now so that when new players and myself see others with legendaries, artifacts, edritch (grand or not), and whatever else have you it means something. Thats just my two cents though.

Cranston wrote:

Matt wrote: While i extremely don't like this effective/quasi 'reserve' list i'm hoping that by alluding to a functional reprint said new token will and can be used in the future transmute. Long as there is an alternate recipe i'm okay, see CoA. Otherwise it's time for a sell off as this burns a lot of mid range players who didn't grab one or didn't know it existed before hand. Seems we're in a player acquisition stage between the various new cons why would we want to handicap.

I'm not saying make stuff 'cheap (and that's a moving target/demographic #) but at least for something that affects token/run economics this stuff should be available. In the end of CoA you could make all the points buy soaking up AoTF, you still couldn't make one for less than i think 700 at the time. Just so people know there is a viable path to acquire what many consider must have long term tokens.

Hi Matt,

I hear your pain and agree that there needs to be a way for newer players to join the treasure fun. I would point out two things. First, we are seeing the Ioun Stone TE coming out, so next year will see the Ioun Stone Gold Nugget providing 2 additional treasure pulls, so there are ways available for new players to get more than 3 pulls. The Ioun Stone Silver Nugget is available today as a Pick-Your-Purp. Cloak of Many Pockets and Lenses of Fortune are Rares that provide 1 extra pull, but are not compatible with the Ioun Stones or CoA.

The second point is a bit of history. The original TE was the Horn of Plenty from 2007. The second was the Ring of Riches in 2013, with Charm of Good Fortune in 2013. The original CoA was first available in 2015 and required all 3 TE tokens plus 6000 gp. Assuming you were purchasing Pick-Your-Purp in those years, it was $750 plus 6000gp, and have been playing for 8 years. The point system came about after the AoTF came out, and ended up being about 6 months later if memory serves, but without a HoP, it was more expensive to make the points.

Ok, long story, not quite as long, it took anywhere from $750-$1000 to make a CoA. I see a CoA on sale on Trent's store for $1300, so not that much more than it took to make originally. Either way, this is a sizeable investment to get the extra pulls. I have no doubt that come 2023 (2 years after the last Ioun Stone) we will see another TE like the earlier ones, but they will likely require playing for several years and investment to make them happen.

In the mean time, enjoy the game. Good luck!

One good thing is that, even if newer players don't want to buy older TE tokens on the secondary market, there will always (at least through 2026) be a TE UR available for order, with another on the way in a year or two.

Druegar wrote: Hate on me all you want. In the end, you* pays your money and you takes your chances. It's your decision.
Nobody promised the tokens you speculated on would pay off in the future.
Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to buy tokens.

• You could have bought zero AotFs
• You could have bought a few AotFs
• You could have bought one hundred AotFs
• You could have bought others tokens in whatever quantity your heart desired
• You can buy no tokens and hope the secondary market can supply your needs

There's always going to be risk.


*in the general sense; not referring to a specific individual

Very true, and in most cases I totally agree with you. I just thought this case was unique since Jeff already said that the AoTF would be part of a recipe in 2026, it would help make informed decisions if the reprint status were known now since different people were making very different assumptions. I would have totally understood if Jeff didn't want to commit one way or another at this time, but I am glad he clarified it now.

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote:

Matt wrote: While i extremely don't like this effective/quasi 'reserve' list i'm hoping that by alluding to a functional reprint said new token will and can be used in the future transmute. Long as there is an alternate recipe i'm okay, see CoA. Otherwise it's time for a sell off as this burns a lot of mid range players who didn't grab one or didn't know it existed before hand. Seems we're in a player acquisition stage between the various new cons why would we want to handicap.

I'm not saying make stuff 'cheap (and that's a moving target/demographic #) but at least for something that affects token/run economics this stuff should be available. In the end of CoA you could make all the points buy soaking up AoTF, you still couldn't make one for less than i think 700 at the time. Just so people know there is a viable path to acquire what many consider must have long term tokens.

Hi Matt,

I hear your pain and agree that there needs to be a way for newer players to join the treasure fun. I would point out two things. First, we are seeing the Ioun Stone TE coming out, so next year will see the Ioun Stone Gold Nugget providing 2 additional treasure pulls, so there are ways available for new players to get more than 3 pulls. The Ioun Stone Silver Nugget is available today as a Pick-Your-Purp. Cloak of Many Pockets and Lenses of Fortune are Rares that provide 1 extra pull, but are not compatible with the Ioun Stones or CoA.

The second point is a bit of history. The original TE was the Horn of Plenty from 2007. The second was the Ring of Riches in 2013, with Charm of Good Fortune in 2013. The original CoA was first available in 2015 and required all 3 TE tokens plus 6000 gp. Assuming you were purchasing Pick-Your-Purp in those years, it was $750 plus 6000gp, and have been playing for 8 years. The point system came about after the AoTF came out, and ended up being about 6 months later if memory serves, but without a HoP, it was more expensive to make the points.

Ok, long story, not quite as long, it took anywhere from $750-$1000 to make a CoA. I see a CoA on sale on Trent's store for $1300, so not that much more than it took to make originally. Either way, this is a sizeable investment to get the extra pulls. I have no doubt that come 2023 (2 years after the last Ioun Stone) we will see another TE like the earlier ones, but they will likely require playing for several years and investment to make them happen.

In the mean time, enjoy the game. Good luck!

One good thing is that, even if newer players don't want to buy older TE tokens on the secondary market, there will always (at least through 2026) be a TE UR available for order, with another on the way in a year or two.

Honestly long as there is an alternate recipe that could be filled with in print TE's i'd be content. Again see how the CoA could be made with nothing but AoTF's. It wasn't the cheapest thing to do and the alternate recipe rewarded those who had the older enhancers but the transmute was available to everyone who wanted to buy all the needed pyp's for the points.

Matt wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote:

Matt wrote: While i extremely don't like this effective/quasi 'reserve' list i'm hoping that by alluding to a functional reprint said new token will and can be used in the future transmute. Long as there is an alternate recipe i'm okay, see CoA. Otherwise it's time for a sell off as this burns a lot of mid range players who didn't grab one or didn't know it existed before hand. Seems we're in a player acquisition stage between the various new cons why would we want to handicap.

I'm not saying make stuff 'cheap (and that's a moving target/demographic #) but at least for something that affects token/run economics this stuff should be available. In the end of CoA you could make all the points buy soaking up AoTF, you still couldn't make one for less than i think 700 at the time. Just so people know there is a viable path to acquire what many consider must have long term tokens.

Hi Matt,

I hear your pain and agree that there needs to be a way for newer players to join the treasure fun. I would point out two things. First, we are seeing the Ioun Stone TE coming out, so next year will see the Ioun Stone Gold Nugget providing 2 additional treasure pulls, so there are ways available for new players to get more than 3 pulls. The Ioun Stone Silver Nugget is available today as a Pick-Your-Purp. Cloak of Many Pockets and Lenses of Fortune are Rares that provide 1 extra pull, but are not compatible with the Ioun Stones or CoA.

The second point is a bit of history. The original TE was the Horn of Plenty from 2007. The second was the Ring of Riches in 2013, with Charm of Good Fortune in 2013. The original CoA was first available in 2015 and required all 3 TE tokens plus 6000 gp. Assuming you were purchasing Pick-Your-Purp in those years, it was $750 plus 6000gp, and have been playing for 8 years. The point system came about after the AoTF came out, and ended up being about 6 months later if memory serves, but without a HoP, it was more expensive to make the points.

Ok, long story, not quite as long, it took anywhere from $750-$1000 to make a CoA. I see a CoA on sale on Trent's store for $1300, so not that much more than it took to make originally. Either way, this is a sizeable investment to get the extra pulls. I have no doubt that come 2023 (2 years after the last Ioun Stone) we will see another TE like the earlier ones, but they will likely require playing for several years and investment to make them happen.

In the mean time, enjoy the game. Good luck!

One good thing is that, even if newer players don't want to buy older TE tokens on the secondary market, there will always (at least through 2026) be a TE UR available for order, with another on the way in a year or two.

Honestly long as there is an alternate recipe that could be filled with in print TE's i'd be content. Again see how the CoA could be made with nothing but AoTF's. It wasn't the cheapest thing to do and the alternate recipe rewarded those who had the older enhancers but the transmute was available to everyone who wanted to buy all the needed pyp's for the points.

Maybe we'll have to wait until 2026 to find out whether there will be an alternate recipe. There is a difference in that the HOP and ROR (and maybe the CoGF) were already out of print when the CoA was announced, but the AoTF was still in print when the new Legendary was announced.

Jeff Martin wrote: The Amulet of Treasure Finding will not be reprinted, but that does not preclude the possibility of printing a very similar token at some point in the future. We need some flexibility to react to how the game changes over the years.

Thanks for your understanding.

I'd like to memorialize this comment by highlighting what wasn't said. The reason is there was a lot of concern and hard feelings when Amulet of Treasure Finding was printed that it violated either the letter, or the spirit, of the Horn of Plenty Policy. Let's head off that anguish for Amulet of Treasure Finding now.

There is no reason to be confident anything below will occur, but it certainly might so let's all try to be cool if it does.

1. You should not expect that a functional reprint won't be created, e.g. "UR Locket of Loot, neck slot, grants +4 Treasure".

2. You should not expect that a superior token won't be created, e.g. "UR Strand of RFID Sensors, neck slot, grants +4 Treasure, with an additional +1 at non Gen Con events"

3. You should not expect that a similar token at a different rarity won't be created, e.g. "Rare Carcanet of Cache Catching, neck slot, may not equip any other TE tokens, +2 treasure if 1-5 are equipped in party, +3 treasure for 6-9, and +4 for 10 or more."

4. You should not expect a token that provides the AoTF effect won't be created, e.g. "Transmuted Talisman of Treasure Finding, ... other game text... counts as an Amulet of Treasure Finding ...other game text..."

5. You should not expect that Amulet of Treasure Finding may not be made available/distributed through various non PyP means, e.g:

• Distribution via throwback treasure pulls
• Mithral Coin of Fate or similar effects (perhaps something related to UR Special ?)
• Perhaps even something like a volunteer reward

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: The Amulet of Treasure Finding will not be reprinted, but that does not preclude the possibility of printing a very similar token at some point in the future. We need some flexibility to react to how the game changes over the years.

Thanks for your understanding.

Is it just me, or when Jeff post something like this, he should have a GIF of a mic drop.

Druegar wrote: Hate on me all you want.

No one hates a man of green!

Ed

Cranston wrote:

Matt wrote: While i extremely don't like this effective/quasi 'reserve' list i'm hoping that by alluding to a functional reprint said new token will and can be used in the future transmute. Long as there is an alternate recipe i'm okay, see CoA. Otherwise it's time for a sell off as this burns a lot of mid range players who didn't grab one or didn't know it existed before hand. Seems we're in a player acquisition stage between the various new cons why would we want to handicap.

I'm not saying make stuff 'cheap (and that's a moving target/demographic #) but at least for something that affects token/run economics this stuff should be available. In the end of CoA you could make all the points buy soaking up AoTF, you still couldn't make one for less than i think 700 at the time. Just so people know there is a viable path to acquire what many consider must have long term tokens.

Hi Matt,

I hear your pain and agree that there needs to be a way for newer players to join the treasure fun. I would point out two things. First, we are seeing the Ioun Stone TE coming out, so next year will see the Ioun Stone Gold Nugget providing 2 additional treasure pulls, so there are ways available for new players to get more than 3 pulls. The Ioun Stone Silver Nugget is available today as a Pick-Your-Purp. Cloak of Many Pockets and Lenses of Fortune are Rares that provide 1 extra pull, but are not compatible with the Ioun Stones or CoA.

The second point is a bit of history. The original TE was the Horn of Plenty from 2007. The second was the Ring of Riches in 2013, with Charm of Good Fortune in 2013. The original CoA was first available in 2015 and required all 3 TE tokens plus 6000 gp. Assuming you were purchasing Pick-Your-Purp in those years, it was $750 plus 6000gp, and have been playing for 8 years. The point system came about after the AoTF came out, and ended up being about 6 months later if memory serves, but without a HoP, it was more expensive to make the points.

Ok, long story, not quite as long, it took anywhere from $750-$1000 to make a CoA. I see a CoA on sale on Trent's store for $1300, so not that much more than it took to make originally. Either way, this is a sizeable investment to get the extra pulls. I have no doubt that come 2023 (2 years after the last Ioun Stone) we will see another TE like the earlier ones, but they will likely require playing for several years and investment to make them happen.

In the mean time, enjoy the game. Good luck!

This is an excellent point.

You can probably count up the number of people who made all their Charm of Avarice using Recipe 1: 1x each of Horn of Plenty, Ring of Riches, Charm of Good Fortune and 6000 GP where they acquired all those tokens at PyP prices of around ~$100 or as part of an original $250 purchase direct from TD without taking off your socks.

Even so, this bargain basement price of Charm of Avarice still reflects a minimum outlay of around $420 over an 8 year period (*see funny math below on comparable investments).

The vast majority of people acquired the necessary ingredients on the secondary market at appreciated prices.

For example, I have 10 CoA. I made 2 with Recipe 1, using HoP I picked up in the $450-550 range, RoR in the $250-300 range, and CoGF in the $150-200 range. The rest I made with recipe 2 using tokens in the above point ranges and AoTFs from $250 PyP purchases I made.

If you want a CoA you can pick them up right now on the secondary market for within around 20% of what the crafter probably put into it. Put another way, anyone right now has the capability of acquiring a CoA at roughly the same price as the original crafters most likely did in 2015.


* Funny math. The cheapest way to acquire a CoA would have been:

1. Buy a HoP for $100 in 2007
2. Buy a RoR for $100 in 2011
3. Buy a CoGF for $100 in 2013
4. Buy 6000 GP for $105 in 2015

Had you instead sunk those amounts into the S&P 500 on January 1st-ish of those years, you would now have around: $740. So, even the savviest of CoA holders has foregone around $740 in value to own one today.