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TOPIC: Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens?

Use for 2017 completion tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #13

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Matthew Hayward wrote:

jacob717 wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: It could be fun to have entry level transmutes that involve completion tokens.

I think making Exalted+ tokens with them may be a mistake, as they are actually very, very common (moreso now that there are multiple cons per year).

Consider: There are ~8000 completion tokens given out over Gen Con. Let's suppose these are 5000 uncommons and 3000 rares.

To come up with 3000 rares of a given type would be 120,000 token 10 packs, enough for 125 8k orders.

It's quite possible there are more rare completion tokens than any other current year rare.


I would be fine with 3 or 4 star transmutes that either just required completion tokens or had a few minor trade tokens to add but I don't see any problems with 5 star relics on the same power level as the RoH if it requires as many trade tokens as the RoH did. Trying to get all the necessary ingredients for the RoH was why I started using the forums so I could buy the completion tokens from 2013 that I was missing and one of the reasons I did my first $250 preorder so that I could have enough tokens to transmute the needed trade tokens. So there are benefits to making a powerful token to transmute the completion tokens that every true dungeon player has because it could increase sales as they collect the missing trade goods.



RoH was extremely cheap for a relic.

Let's compare the recipe for RoH with another 2015 relic, +3 Deathcleaver:

Non trade good components:

RoH - 1 ring, 6 uncommon or rare tokens that were all readily available
+3 Deathcleaver - 1 Ultra Rare, 3 uncommon or rare tokens that were readily available, but in short supply

The UR in the Deathcleaver blows the RoH out of the water cost wise.

Trade Goods - Basic Trade Goods:

RoH required 8
+3 Deathcleaver required 31

Trade Goods - Oil and Bismuth:
RoH required 2
+3 Deathcleaver required 1

Trade Goods - Aragonite
RoH required 1
+3 Deathcleaver required 2

Trade Goods - Fleece
RoH required 1

GP:
RoH required 1000
+3 Deathcleaver required 5000


In my estimation +3 Deathcleaver's recipe requires around 20 more basic trade goods, an extra aragonite, and a UR. The rest of the other stuff all washes out.

So - I don't think RoH is really a good recipe to base future Relics off of, cost wise.


I agree and disagree. I agree the RoH was cheap compaird to other relics (which are designed to give token heavy players something to do with their bulk loot), but the ROH recepie filled another niche by giving casual repeat players a path from light to moderate token purchases.

If everything above rare feels to far out of reach your not likely to spend time considering it. But if you already have most of what you need maybe making a 250 purchase to get some trade goods isnt out of the question. And once your level 5 amd have an UR maybe its not so hard to justify another.

End of the day I'd love to see another utility type item take up the RoH recepie from say 2017-2020, maybe something basic like a +2 bastard or short sword. The only issue as I see it would be coming up with something equally universal.
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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #14

Wait, but relic != relic, right?

Deathcleaver is best in slot for some classes (at least it is a key component for the legendary best in slot item), while RoH has an effect that gets replaced eventually by the Eldritch set, charming, or lots of other future items.

Make it a 3 star relic if necessary. It can be an item (like RoH) that can't be upgraded further, but it would still be a good intro to transmuting for newer players who want to dabble in collecting

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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #15

Eric wrote: Wait, but relic != relic, right?

Deathcleaver is best in slot for some classes (at least it is a key component for the legendary best in slot item), while RoH has an effect that gets replaced eventually by the Eldritch set, charming, or lots of other future items.

Make it a 3 star relic if necessary. It can be an item (like RoH) that can't be upgraded further, but it would still be a good intro to transmuting for newer players who want to dabble in collecting


The names of transmutes are:

Enhanced - 3 point star - typically between a rare and an ultra rare in power
Exalted - 4 point star - typically between an ultra rare and a relic in power
Relic - 5 point star - these come in a few varieties, vanilla Relic and Eldritch Relic
Legendary - No star
Grand Eldrtich - No star

Colloquially, when people in the forums say "relic" they mean "5 point transmute that is not an Eldritch token."

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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #16

So with sets replacing the RoH will there be some transmute path to take them out of play in a useful and meaningful way?
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Use for 2017 completion tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #17

Matthew Hayward wrote:

jacob717 wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: It could be fun to have entry level transmutes that involve completion tokens.

I think making Exalted+ tokens with them may be a mistake, as they are actually very, very common (moreso now that there are multiple cons per year).

Consider: There are ~8000 completion tokens given out over Gen Con. Let's suppose these are 5000 uncommons and 3000 rares.

To come up with 3000 rares of a given type would be 120,000 token 10 packs, enough for 125 8k orders.

It's quite possible there are more rare completion tokens than any other current year rare.


I would be fine with 3 or 4 star transmutes that either just required completion tokens or had a few minor trade tokens to add but I don't see any problems with 5 star relics on the same power level as the RoH if it requires as many trade tokens as the RoH did. Trying to get all the necessary ingredients for the RoH was why I started using the forums so I could buy the completion tokens from 2013 that I was missing and one of the reasons I did my first $250 preorder so that I could have enough tokens to transmute the needed trade tokens. So there are benefits to making a powerful token to transmute the completion tokens that every true dungeon player has because it could increase sales as they collect the missing trade goods.



RoH was extremely cheap for a relic.

In my estimation +3 Deathcleaver's recipe requires around 20 more basic trade goods, an extra aragonite, and a UR. The rest of the other stuff all washes out.

So - I don't think RoH is really a good recipe to base future Relics off of, cost wise.


I agree that it was cheap for a relic but I also know that not all relics are equal in power or cost to make. Relics like the RoH, draco charm, and Ice crag earcuff are much cheaper but seem more on par with URs while the Relics that require URs to make are all obviously much better than the UR that it took to make them. With my current budget I'm not expecting to ever transmute one of the upgrade relics but it would be nice to work towards another relic like the RoH.

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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #18

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tweaking Matthew Hayward's fine transmuted list a little:
  • Enhanced : Light blue back, 3 point star - typically between an Uncommon and a Rare in power
  • Exalted : Light blue back, 8-point star dimples, 4-point star - typically between a Rare and an Ultra Rare in power
  • Relic : Dark blue back, 5 point star - a little more powerful than an Ultra Rare
  • Legendary : Orange back, no star nor year icon
  • Eldritch Relic : Dark green back, 5-point star
  • Grand Eldrtich : Dark green back, no star
  • Artifact : Purple back, no longer transmutable (included for completeness sake)
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections in this thread .
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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #19

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Bob Chasan wrote: So with sets replacing the RoH will there be some transmute path to take them out of play in a useful and meaningful way?


The eldritched set doesnt replace ROH, its just another way to get to level 5 so they dont really need to be tanken out of play.

Bit of history. Back in the design periods of yor the only way to level up was with the set bonus power of the might set. Everyone wore it, fighters and wizards alike. We argued that leveling up was to fundamental a part of all the classes to bury it in a single setbonus. From there is was decided that the charm, ring, and medallion of heroism should be produced. The charm was available immediately and involved transmuting a might set, the ring would be available in 3 years time to reward thr loyalty of the less affluent, and the medallion as an even more accessible level up with a major drawback. Since then the number of ways to level up has been expanded upon but they are no more connected then any other tokens that grant the same bonuses.
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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #20

I believe what Bob meant was that as a player acquires an eldritch set he or she will no longer use a RoH....at least that is how I read his replace comment. For those folks I would agree.
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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #21

If I remember correctly, the start of the transmute period for the RoH coincided with the end of a story arc (it started the same time as Icecrag Hero's Earcuff).

Perhaps Jeff will make a +1 level Relic available at the end of the current arc, with a similar recipe to the RoH. Potentially, this could be in a different slot. I could see this being a semi-regular thing.

But of course that's all just speculation.

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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #22

Hopefully we will get both Monster part transmute and a Completion token transmute at the end of the arc.

Would be good to know for sure...if only a confirmation by Jeff that yes or no there will (not) be one (or even maybe). So I know whether to set aside a few sets of each.

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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #23

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Well if Jeff is planning a surprise completion token transmute I hope he lets us know soon so we can make sure to keep some completion tokens / not miss the next a year etc.
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Use for 2017 completion/monster bit tokens? 6 years 6 months ago #24

I am saving extra completions and bits both just in case.
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