TOPIC: My charms for your $$

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I just don't think it's right to be insinuating that something fishy is going on without evidence.

I don't think Lazlo did anything of the sort.

Brad... come on!

Next time you make an offer in the forums, if I responded saying: "I am starting to think that this sounds a lot like a Nigerian funds transfer scam."

Can I count on you to agree that I haven't insinuated anything about you or your offer?

I think Laz expressed concern, I don't think he insinuated anything.

bpsymington wrote: I think Laz expressed concern, I don't think he insinuated anything.

+1

I'll step up and acknowledge I more than insinuated and I'm proud of it. Frankly, I don't know how Laz feels about all this but I know I personally don't need some school marm babysitting my comments. You don't like it? Well you've said your peace by now. If someone pops up out of the blue and makes a patently whacky offer like that and then can't take a few sarcastically suspicious comments then they're got zero self awareness. They'd also have the sense of humor of an Asperger sandwich. Look for someone holding two pieces of bread to their ears.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: The lack of trust on this board borders on paranoia.

Lots of my buyers are not active on the forums. If you watch eBay sales, you'll see lots of sellers who are also not active on the forums. If you talk with volunteers at Gen Con, you'll encounter lots of them who are multi-year volunteers who are not active on the forums.

If you require safety in your transactions, pay via PayPal goods and services, PayPal will side with the buyer if there is a dispute - no trust required.

I've had a few PMs with the seller, looks like they managed to make an arrangement.

It is not helpful to anyone, and harms your own credibility, to be slinging around insinuations that someone is untrustworthy without evidence.

i was suspicious, first post was selling high end tokens
second, I ask for a location to try to find someone to go and look. Sent in pm and posted here(no reply from seller )
3rd, needed money today.
if you lurk and watch the board, people are nice and do help. There have people been burned (long before most were here).
i get scam phone calls at my business all the time. it is what it seemed like. especially when I got no reply. it isnt like it was $20. it was 2700$. paypal may have your back but it has taken months for me to get refunds from paypal
So Sorry for being careful

I would never criticize anyone for exercising a degree of caution they feel is appropriate when dealing with large dollar amounts and strangers.

I just don't think it's right to be insinuating that something fishy is going on without evidence. For all we know Jay is an upright person. If you don't think so, don't do business with them - no need for public insinuations to the contrary.

Yes it is okay to insinuate
When I asked a simple question and don't get a response. Hell yes I am going to think it is a prince of Egypt scam.
I get scam phone calls daily.
I have been scamed in here. Granted it was for 20$ In 2008. But still. I told people what I asked and still had no response
I don't want someone being taken advantage of.
If a deal is too good to be true....
I would love to have read the Pms the guy got.
I bet people even offered lower than he was asking. Or acted like a pawn shop. If you want to buy them back, I will
Give you a year but it will cost you 20% more.
Hey Steele. At those prices you are right on par with your offer of BotFW for a CoA. So people were wrong

Chad, you're so right. Quite a bit of lecturing from multiple people on CoA token values, and here are three documented sales of under $1K each.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I just don't think it's right to be insinuating that something fishy is going on without evidence.

I don't think Lazlo did anything of the sort.

Brad... come on!

Next time you make an offer in the forums, if I responded saying: "I am starting to think that this sounds a lot like a Nigerian funds transfer scam."

Can I count on you to agree that I haven't insinuated anything about you or your offer?

Brad has been around and a proven track
Record.
Again this guy was new and had signed up a month prior. Then first post was for a bunch of the most wanted tokens at a great deal.
Didn't sound like he was open to much other than send me money and I will send tokens.
Yes PayPal protects. All the seller would have had to do if ship 5 tokens and get tracking number...that could be 5 commons.

Then you get it and open it. Surprisingly you have 5 commons. You contact him. No response.
Then you contact PayPal. They contact seller.
Seller proves he shipped. Now it's tied up

It's your word vs his. He has prof he shipped and is now saying you are a liar.
If he is good he actual boxed up and took pics of what was suppose to send.

This happened to me. Not with tokens but for a game on eBay.
I was told nothing they could do. I was out $20 but still.
Yes this is more and you could talk eto small claims court.
Now say you live in NYC. The seller lives in Denver.
Airfare, court cost lawyer etc is going to be over 5k just for that. And there is no way to tell you will win
So yea. I hope this never happens to anyone.

FYI I welcome newbies with open arms. Usually give them deals and send some extra tokens. So I am not against new people ask anyone. A lot of people's first dealings were with me

I shared info. Just like
I do when someone is good or bad

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I just don't think it's right to be insinuating that something fishy is going on without evidence.

I don't think Lazlo did anything of the sort.

Brad... come on!

Next time you make an offer in the forums, if I responded saying: "I am starting to think that this sounds a lot like a Nigerian funds transfer scam."

Can I count on you to agree that I haven't insinuated anything about you or your offer?

To be fair, "Nigeria" was from Henwy, not Chad. Your analogy is non sequiter.

Now, if some else says that about me, then yes, I'll agree that YOU insinuated nothing. I won't necessarily say the same about them.

And you're right, there could be perfectly innocent explanations for the situation. I allowed as such. Scams sound legit, or no one would fall for them.

Yes, Henwy is often direct and uuses less tact than others, but he is not wrong when he points out this offer shares traits of a plausible-sounding scam... but knowing exactly what he's thinking is one of Henwy's many charms.

That doesn't mean the offer isn't totally up-and-up. It just means Chad was right, IMO, to ask questions. And I think we all agree with Wade that we hope for the best for all concerned.

But answering PMs is just good manners. I get the guy is under stress. Not answering fuels any suspicion. Half this thread wouldn't exist if Chad had gotten any reply whatsoever to his question.

And I hope that no one interprets caution as hostility.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rob F wrote:

TJRat wrote: Chad - keep telling the truth, especially after your attempts to communicate. Lately there's been enough instances of shady activity in the so-called 'established' stores on these forums; bad faith, bait & switch and price fixing. Do what you do best -investigate and share to help fight for the most important (and unfortunately forgotten) element of a healthy secondary market - integrity.

Matthew; I understand you may feel it important to stand up for a new forumite. IMHO, the best way to do that may be to provide a positive endorsement. If you find success in obtaining some, please share it.

Shady activity in the established stores on the forums related to bait & switch, price fixing, bad faith? This is the first I've heard of this and am somewhat surprised. Would be interested in hearing details.

I agree.

If such activity is being visited on the community, let's shed some light on it - that would be helpful.

Saying "shady things are afoot at in the secondary market" without details is harmful - it undermines confidence with no possible way for anyone to rectify it. Undermining confidence in the secondary market harms the value of all of our collections.

Also agreed. Even if it involves my own store, I'd rather know that I did something inappropriate, if I did.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Chad, it seemed to me you just reported facts and let people draw their own conclusion. Totally fair.

And yes, when someone you never heard of offers five of the hottest tokens for half price, but only if you act "today," it does sound "too good to be true." If he'd started off at $5k I wouldn't be so suspicious.

TD has been a close-knit community for 15 years. Now that it's growing so quickly, it wouldn't surprise me if a con artist or two crept onto the forums. There are already a few scamming newbies at the treasure boxes. Thinking they'll never try to target us in our safe space on the forums is wishful thinking. Why settle for a token you still have to flip when you can go straight for cash?

That said, it could be a totally legit offer. I'm trying to understand why he wouldn't respond to you or Rob. Weird.

No insinuation. It all just strikes me as odd.

I think you make a lot of good points here - but I wonder on the "need it now" price of these tokens. I actually think the guy picked a pretty good number.

I think the: I'm moving this today, dammit! Price on those tokens in that volume is about:

$999 for Charm of Avarice
$199 for 1st Tooth of Cavadar

So - $3,400 for the bunch. They asked $2,700, which is pretty much exactly 20% off of that number.

I agree their prices are 50% of asking prices.

But you'll notice everyone who is asking those prices has those items in stock, and does not seem to be in danger of an immediate sell out

I also agree that the asking price is a good deal but not necessarily too good to be true. If the goal was to move them quickly, especially as somebody who isn't known in the community, a higher price might have failed to make that happen. He could have asked $4,000 for the lot of tokens, but I know I wouldn't have responded to that.

PS - I did hear back from the seller and it looks like he has a deal in progress (not with me). Good luck to the buyer and seller.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rob F wrote:

TJRat wrote: Chad - keep telling the truth, especially after your attempts to communicate. Lately there's been enough instances of shady activity in the so-called 'established' stores on these forums; bad faith, bait & switch and price fixing. Do what you do best -investigate and share to help fight for the most important (and unfortunately forgotten) element of a healthy secondary market - integrity.

Matthew; I understand you may feel it important to stand up for a new forumite. IMHO, the best way to do that may be to provide a positive endorsement. If you find success in obtaining some, please share it.

Shady activity in the established stores on the forums related to bait & switch, price fixing, bad faith? This is the first I've heard of this and am somewhat surprised. Would be interested in hearing details.

I agree.

If such activity is being visited on the community, let's shed some light on it - that would be helpful.

Saying "shady things are afoot at in the secondary market" without details is harmful - it undermines confidence with no possible way for anyone to rectify it. Undermining confidence in the secondary market harms the value of all of our collections.

How would getting into a spat with money-obsessed sellers with skewed priorities be helpful? Everyone should go into trading on this forum with their eyes open. Undermining confidence was caused by the unethical sellers, not by me. the value of my collection is based on its use in the game; not in some vague and easily manipulated cash value assigned by those out to make money. The secondary market needs to remind themselves that they are supporting the community, not leading it. Decisions about the game should be made for the good of the game, not for the profits it may bring someone.

Those involved know who they are. Hopefully they'll take a look at how they do business and return integrity to their small part of the forums.

TJRat wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rob F wrote:

TJRat wrote: Chad - keep telling the truth, especially after your attempts to communicate. Lately there's been enough instances of shady activity in the so-called 'established' stores on these forums; bad faith, bait & switch and price fixing. Do what you do best -investigate and share to help fight for the most important (and unfortunately forgotten) element of a healthy secondary market - integrity.

Matthew; I understand you may feel it important to stand up for a new forumite. IMHO, the best way to do that may be to provide a positive endorsement. If you find success in obtaining some, please share it.

Shady activity in the established stores on the forums related to bait & switch, price fixing, bad faith? This is the first I've heard of this and am somewhat surprised. Would be interested in hearing details.

I agree.

If such activity is being visited on the community, let's shed some light on it - that would be helpful.

Saying "shady things are afoot at in the secondary market" without details is harmful - it undermines confidence with no possible way for anyone to rectify it. Undermining confidence in the secondary market harms the value of all of our collections.

How would getting into a spat with money-obsessed sellers with skewed priorities be helpful? Everyone should go into trading on this forum with their eyes open. Undermining confidence was caused by the unethical sellers, not by me. the value of my collection is based on its use in the game; not in some vague and easily manipulated cash value assigned by those out to make money. The secondary market needs to remind themselves that they are supporting the community, not leading it. Decisions about the game should be made for the good of the game, not for the profits it may bring someone.

Those involved know who they are. Hopefully they'll take a look at how they do business and return integrity to their small part of the forums.

If they know who they are then that's good. I guess I'd still like details on what happened if that could be possible without revealing who they were. Without knowing what happened I can't be sure I'm not doing the same thing, possibly unintentionally.

I will point out that the value of your collection does rely on the secondary market, in part. Obviously a useless token won't be worth much, but neither will a useful token if you can't sell it. In part people are willing to spend money on these tokens because there is a fairly healthy resale market and we all know we can get at least some of our money back in the future.

I agree the secondary market buyers/sellers should hold ethics and the future of the game as their highest priorities. I also agree that there are always bad apples now and again.