TOPIC: Should Ghosting be allowed at GENCON?

I would second the idea of sealed bags of three chips from the old mix put into a treasure box at the epilogue desk. Anything over the basic three chips could be from another set of boxes up front. The only hitch I see is settling on the difference in the sets of treasure. Maybe 38% uncommon, 38% rare, 20% monster bit, 3% 'other' (comprised of Trade tokens, low level transmutes, and the odd completion token from the small cons), and the remaining 1% top end tokens like Reserve bars, URs and Relics?

balthasar wrote: I would second the idea of sealed bags of three chips from the old mix put into a treasure box at the epilogue desk. Anything over the basic three chips could be from another set of boxes up front. The only hitch I see is settling on the difference in the sets of treasure. Maybe 38% uncommon, 38% rare, 20% monster bit, 3% 'other' (comprised of Trade tokens, low level transmutes, and the odd completion token from the small cons), and the remaining 1% top end tokens like Reserve bars, URs and Relics?

I wonder how many hours if would take to pack and zip tie 8500 bags of tokens

Beertram wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: Let's take TDC as an interesting example. Limits were put on ghosting. The price was so low that there was significant concern expressed about farming. There were only 58 runs. The place was crawling with serious players and collectors

If the Tabletop site numbers are reliable there were 15 runs with unsold slots. 6 of which had 5 or more spots open. 2 had all 10 spots unsold.

There were also a tiny number of players compared to Origins.

Plus the vast majority of those tickets not sold were during the Patron event. I count 45 unsold tickets during the Patron event. I count only 14 not during the Patron event and 10 of those are all 1 slot. I don't recall those being available a couple weeks before the event, so I am guessing those were from unfortunate cancellations.

I'm not seeing that. The Patron run ended at 5. 9 of the open spot runs began at 5 or later. 28 tickets were open during Patron runs with 10 of those from one slot. 31 were from runs starting at 5 or later with 10 from one slot.

Hardly overwhelming.

How does this differ from people who just buy treasure pulls tokens from eBay or with their preorders?

It all promotes the game, doesn't it?

valetutto wrote:

Rob F wrote: This has been a very interesting thread. Lots of unknowns here though. From the posts i see that people in favor of ghosting generally believe that supply isn't an issue or that without ghosting there would be tickets left unsold. Well, those are all very nice assumptions but we all know that there's really only one way to find out for sure......ban ghosting and see.

I'm not a big fan of ghosting because to me it goes against the very spirit of gamers and Gen Con in general although I can see where in certain scenario's it may have some merit. What concerns me most is that there's always a chance, no matter how small, that the ghosted ticket just boxed out a truly awesome new player from a truly awesome experience. We need more "Raven's" and "Smak's" and "Trent's" and "Ro-gan's" and "Incognito's" coming on board each year!! And I understand that others may not want to run with new players but if it "pisses people off" then I question whether or not they should be playing anyway. If I ran my first run with veteran player's and they were "pissed off" about it just because I happened to get a ticket to their party I'm sure I would be able to tell, and that would most likely be the last time I played the game of True Dungeon. It's a game for God sake! When I used to travel to Milwaukee back in the day one of the best parts about Gen Con was being able to sit down with total strangers to learn a new game and feel totally welcome in doing so. I love organizing runs with just my friends at Gen Con but if it came down to being able to ghost a ticket because one of my friends couldn't show or letting a stranger play I'd choose the stranger every time. Pending she/he had a CoA of course!! Just kidding!!

But Rob, why stop at ghosting? Why not ban all "specialty" runs like the Greedy sealed runs.
In fact if we're optimizing for the new player experience why even let folks do more than 1 run of each dungeon? Clearly that is a space that another player could be going on.


I find it interesting that there is a perspective out there that gencon is the place to play random games with random folks. I've always seen it as a place to play games with friends.

Another derailment, but slightly pertinent, if you were at a restaurant with a significant other and the place starts to fill up, are you in favor of letting random strangers fill into the extra chairs you have at your table?


I personally think we should foster choice. The choice to have the ghosted slot or not. If the group wants to have a more controlled environment why not let them. If they choose to add in strangers that's fine too but it was their choice. A Ban on ghosting removes choice and it forces a situation some players may not like.


Finally i'll conclude with a quote, "Nature finds a way"
Banning ghosting will just make it spring up as Mules, or last second ticket refunds.

I can get on board with fostering choice but if you want to foster choice at the expense of limiting others from enjoying the experience then one shouldn’t be over compensated for it. I can see that a group of people might want to play with just friends that they know. That’s totally understandable, but if that’s truly the intent and let’s say the result is 7 out of 10 people on a run with 3 ghosts tickets being purchased to secure that the group is a friend only run, then I don’t see why that group should receive the treasure benefit of a 10 person party. Because the fact is there’s a chance you are still limiting other players from enjoying the experience. So if the goal of the group is to run with 7 friends then I say disburse 7 players worth of treasure. If the goal is to maximize treasure pulls then I think the group should be forced to set aside their desire of running together to include the remaining 3 players. And if you want to solo a run to see if you can do it then great go for it!! Buy out the run. But be happy with your 15 Tokens or whatever the max is for a single person since you are sucking up 9 additional spots.

As for the restaurant example, you bring up a good point but I think it’s a bit different in the fact that if I’m reserving a table for say four friends I’ll be seated at an appropriate space to accommodate the party, I won’t be seated at a space to accommodate fifteen people because that would in effect reduce the availability of the restaurant to others. Going on a single run at TD and ghosting the other tickets is like sitting down at a table with 10 chairs while others may be waiting outside. Yes you can counter with the fact that the restaurant might ask the person to pay 10 times the amount of his bill to cover the empty seats but is that still good policy for the restaurant owner? Sure the restaurant is still pulling in cash but from a long term perspective it’s more beneficial for the restaurant to pull in cash AND have as many people as possible exposed to the experience of the dining establishment. Especially if they are serving a Nameless Hero's Feast as the main course

Ha I see what you did there.

That I am glad you are coming around to ghosting. Now the debate is whether the should be full, partial, or no treasure.

I guess maybe I am a bit.

I say no treasure for ghosts. You have 10 CoA then make friends with people who want to play and don't lose things..

Rob F wrote: I guess maybe I am a bit.

I say no treasure for ghosts. You have 10 CoA then make friends with people who want to play and don't lose things..

I'd agree with allowing Ghosts but with no loot (basically the TDC rule), but I'd also be OK with Ghosts getting the starting 10 pack of tokens and the basic three treasure pulls, but no more than 3 no matter what treasure enhancing tokens you might have.

Mike Steele wrote:

Rob F wrote: I guess maybe I am a bit.

I say no treasure for ghosts. You have 10 CoA then make friends with people who want to play and don't lose things..

I'd agree with allowing Ghosts but with no loot (basically the TDC rule), but I'd also be OK with Ghosts getting the starting 10 pack of tokens and the basic three treasure pulls, but no more than 3 no matter what treasure enhancing tokens you might have.

And I, and many others, aren't okay with either. And since nobody is saying anything new, that's probably all there is to say

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Rob F wrote: I guess maybe I am a bit.

I say no treasure for ghosts. You have 10 CoA then make friends with people who want to play and don't lose things..

I'd agree with allowing Ghosts but with no loot (basically the TDC rule), but I'd also be OK with Ghosts getting the starting 10 pack of tokens and the basic three treasure pulls, but no more than 3 no matter what treasure enhancing tokens you might have.

And I, and many others, aren't okay with either. And since nobody is saying anything new, that's probably all there is to say

And yet, I suspect a lot more will be said.

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Rob F wrote: I guess maybe I am a bit.

I say no treasure for ghosts. You have 10 CoA then make friends with people who want to play and don't lose things..

I'd agree with allowing Ghosts but with no loot (basically the TDC rule), but I'd also be OK with Ghosts getting the starting 10 pack of tokens and the basic three treasure pulls, but no more than 3 no matter what treasure enhancing tokens you might have.

And I, and many others, aren't okay with either. And since nobody is saying anything new, that's probably all there is to say

And yet, I suspect a lot more will be said.

If so, I hope it's something new

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Rob F wrote: I guess maybe I am a bit.

I say no treasure for ghosts. You have 10 CoA then make friends with people who want to play and don't lose things..

I'd agree with allowing Ghosts but with no loot (basically the TDC rule), but I'd also be OK with Ghosts getting the starting 10 pack of tokens and the basic three treasure pulls, but no more than 3 no matter what treasure enhancing tokens you might have.

And I, and many others, aren't okay with either. And since nobody is saying anything new, that's probably all there is to say

And yet, I suspect a lot more will be said.

Of course it will. As of yet no one has established that Jeff sees this as a problem.