This sounds quite a bit like True Dungeon to me...

www.kickstarter.com/projects/1479710775/tomb-adventure-2?ref=category

Awesome. I just bough tickets for Espionage and 20000 Leagues for next Monday in Massachusetts!! Thanks for finding that Sage.

I apologize--I meant to post this in off-topic. If an admin sees this, please feel free to move the topic.

Kickstarters are a ridiculous business model. Here give us your money so I can operate my business. I will happily invest money in a business I believe in but kickstarters area basically theft. I want to make a lot of money with no risk, here I will use your money and you get nothing for it.

Archmage, I'm pretty sure when you invest you get certain perks based on your contribution. (Copy of the game for example).

Rafiq

Your terminology is exactly why I hate kickstarters. You aren't actually investing anything. Lets say you have a business idea, you get a couple of investors, these investors raise 100,000 dollars for your business and you put 100,000 dollars. They now partially own, or as is the case, are invested in your company. They own half the business and half the risk. They will take part of the profit for however long the agreement was for. However, as with all business there is the risk that it fails and those investors have now lost their money but so have you. You have risk.

Now, with a kickstart project you the business owner decide you want to do something, a game or whatever. You don't want to put your money forward and risk losing anything, and you know that there are people out there that want to see your game become reality so what do you do, you start a kickstarter. These people give you money so you can make your game. Sure, you offer them a tee-shirt, or other cheep bobble. Now there is no risk to you, and you make your game and make lots of money. The people who gave you money actually have nothing, nada, zip. It is just the growth of our society, we figure out whatever way we can to make a buck without risking anything ourselves. If it fails you've lost nothing, you were playing with money people were giving you for basically free. Its funny I've just looked over 5 different game kickstarters and not a one did you get even a copy of the game. All the rewards were cheaper stuff like bonus weapons for in the game or a different costume, or signed rule-books.

Here is a great example, if Jeff wanted to make a TD themed park instead of going to the bank and getting a loan, thus putting himself at risk, he could create a kickstarter. How many TD players would just give him money to make this park. Sure because of the size of our player base not enough to actually make the park but lets pretend that the player base keeps growing. A bunch of us would happily throw money at him to make the park a reality. Sure there would probably be a couple of cool tokens for the really big donors. Then when the park opens and the rest of the world realizes how cool Jeff is and how great TD is he makes a billion dollars, and if it fails, opps he just lost all that money that wasn't even his in the first place.

Please note that I was just making up a factitious use of Jeff and TD.
As a side note, those parks look really cool but I'm still not just going to give them money so they can make themselves richer.

I have very little exposure to Kickstarter, but the one I did hear about and looked into was a deluxe version of Ogre by Steve Jackson Games, and I was disappointed that the time period had ended and I was too late to donate money myself. It raised a TON more money than the goal had been, partially because of the love so many people still have for the game, and partially because of the tremendous bonuses you got for donating, including a copy of the game at I think the $100 level (which is great since retail value was $100), and for $150 I think your perks included a copy of the game and your name printed on the inside box on all the games. So this one at least did include the game, and for nearly all the donation levels the bonuses you got seemed well worth the price.

I kickstarted Ogre. But, as Steve Jackson states on Kickstarter, he was basically using it as a prebuy mechanism for the game. That way he knew how many to produce, could make a better game because of the guaranteed cash flow, and had the opportunity for player input to tweak everything from pieces to game mechanics.

I don't understand why you don't like kickstarters Archmage, but don't badmouth me on the forums by twisting my words around. An investment has two meanings. It also means "to devote one's time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result." That result for me is a new product I believe is worthwhile. I for one am glad kickstarters exist as it gives people with ideas, but not the start up cash, to get companies started or products developed. If you don't like it, don't invest. Very simple. A lot of these entrepreneurs cannot get the money from a bank because let's face it what bank is going to give them a loan to start up a game? The only ones I know of break your legs if you don't pay up. As for TD it is very much like an ongoing kickstarter. Jeff couldn't run the event without the help of so many devoted volunteers that help every year. Does the time they invest get them a share of the profits? No. They get some in game token or their badge or hotel paid for and a feeling of contributing to something they love or like very much. To say the people who gave you money (or in the case of TD, their time) get nothing in return is very materialistic attitude.

Rafiq

I love kickstarters!
(wish that more money would make it to the developer, though)

Every kickstarter project is different. Most seem to use them as a presale mechanism, like SJ did. Some offer nothing in return so they're basically beggars, and I doubt they get funded anyway. But it's a free country, everyone knows what, if anything, they will get in return for their contribution. Im glad it's there, why should banks make all the profit when a good idea turns out less viable than people thought? But it isn't free money, Kickstarter keeps 10% of every dollar collected.

BTW, reducing the business person's risk is good for customers. Most game companies fail, few even break even. You've been at cons and seen the crates of stuff from companies you never heard of that barely sells for ten cents on the dollar. Those are the remains of people who took a gamble and lost everything. They guess on how much to print, and if they print too many they're bankrupt. Demoralized and broke, we'll never see another game from them. How does punishing them for their overenthusiasm help anyone? Except some printer in China, and maybe some bank who insists on getting paid back. Look at all those dead trees...

If they know exactly what demand they'll have they can print what they need. They can make a few, learn from their mistakes and do a second, presumably better product. And there's much less wasted paper.

And if their Kickstarter goes nowhere, they either figure out what's wrong and try again, or they decide they don't have what it takes. Either way, trees are saved and heartbreak is averted.

Hello guys,

I just wanted to throw in 2 cents on this one because I have had exposure to Tomb in the past. I used to be and insurance auditor and I had audited the account to balance out their premiums at the end of the year. From the conversation that I had with their staff about the actual walk through it is geared more to children and educational purposes.

Thanks,
Keith