TOPIC: What is the maximum to-hit bonus needed?

Not sure if this topic has been brought up before, but one thing I noticed when going through the monsters of past runs is that there doesn’t seem to be an AC better than 24 (I thought I had seen one that was AC 27 at one point but can’t find it now). Is there a real need to have characters with to-hit bonuses modified to make them better than +14?

Had this conversation with our group not that long ago. Since the sliding board is much harder to quantify mathematically, pluses to hit do not scale evenly.

My rough estimate is that once you approach +13 you all but guarantee a hit. This number can include Bardsong, so some builds only need to be in the +10 or +11 range. With a to-hit in that range, one can aim for the lower numbers on the board, which tend to be quite large.

Higher to-hits are far from worthless, but above +13 you have reached a point of very quickly diminishing returns.

Of course the inverse is also true. As you approach the "sweet spot" your chances to-hit go up very rapidly.

My current build has a +9 to-hit (+12 because our Bard is awesome. I have always been pretty good at sliding so I am fairly easily an auto-hit in most situations.

I am sad that my Rogue's to hit is only +9 after having +13 to my base strength.... wondering if the character builder is pranking me

If the combat board has numbers in the 'background' (usually stripes with the numbers below 10) it is possible to hit even if your puck is outside the outline of the monster.

Nightmare has higher ACs, and True Grind has definitely had higher ACs. If you are running on Normal mode, and can generally hit the monster silhouette, a +ToHit of 10 should get you through most fights.

kurtreznor wrote: If the combat board has numbers in the 'background' (usually stripes with the numbers below 10) it is possible to hit even if your puck is outside the outline of the monster.

Is that true? I have been debating asking about that L&L forum, because there have been times I was off the silhouette the DM marked it a miss without even looking at the number. In the same fight, people on the monster hit even though they had a lower total than my 'miss' slide (I generally build for an insane To Hit, because I know I am a mediocre slider).

kurtreznor wrote: If the combat board has numbers in the 'background' (usually stripes with the numbers below 10) it is possible to hit even if your puck is outside the outline of the monster.

Xavon wrote: Is that true? {snip} there have been times I was off the silhouette the DM marked it a miss without even looking at the number.

It's true/possible, yes. However, not all combat boards have have the stripes with valid zones "behind" them. Any time you slide into a numberless zone (or hit the backboard), it's an automatic miss.

The Nightmare Minotaur from 2010 had an AC of 28.

I would have to check the module but as I recall hearing that one of the creatures in Nightmare last year had a 28+ AC.

With the new set build from this year I'll be at +16 but that is mainly do to +STR items which I'm using for the +dam componet as well. When running anything but nightmare I tend to slide for the lower number sections of the monster to leave it wide open for other sliders.

Druegar wrote: Any time you slide into a numberless zone (or hit the backboard), it's an automatic miss.

I find this very counter-intuitive. A slide that comes to rest on an unnumbered section of the silhouette essentially has an attack score of null while a slide that at least gets to the background can end in the middle of nowhere and still be a hit.

I can't remember any combat boards not having 1-10 on the background, but I haven't been around for very long.

I do know last year my group had trouble with the Force Cage on the Guardian. We finally defeated it when I managed to bump the barbarian from a 1 to 2.

Druegar et all,

There is a possible misconception running around the DMs. I remember there are some years not hitting the silhouette was a automatic miss regardless of the numbers.

Once again If we have a definitive rule for this please cross post to the DM forums; as I know many DMs last year (including myself) automatically called a non silhouette slider a miss regardless of the background number.

If Incognito is around maybe he can comment on how grind views this as well.

Regards,
Anthony Brown
a.k.a. Kartas Starfurie
Rage of Dragons co-guild leader

Mmmmmmm - I see this going either way. Why have numbers on areas if they would be an automatic miss? We probably need a Jeff call on this.