I'm against the use of proxies. It is one step away from fakes.

Rafiq

Brad Mortensen wrote:


hmm, I wonder if we can put a damage ring around Ben Franklin?

I don't think a bill would slide as well, though...

caveat emptor re: the small well-behaved child

thanks for the laughs regarding the Ben Franklin and small child, Brad.

On a more serious note, everyone I've lent tokens to has been very nice, and has either been a friend, become a friend, or potentially a future friend that I had just met, and I've enjoyed my runs with them. I don't want helping someone out in a friendly manner to become something of a "I don't trust you, this is a business transaction. What's your collateral?". Not exactly my opinion of starting off on the right foot.

Regarding the case where I almost lost the sling of impact, that was with a group of friends I have had for 23 years, only one of whom had played True Dungeon before, and someone happened to forget to empty the slider in the training room. The value of my friendship with them far exceeds the value of all my tokens, let alone one UR, and I wouldn't want to do anything to tarnish that relationship.

Bottom line, there are going to be those of us who have tokens we are willing to lend out, but would prefer to not have the nervousness associated with potentially losing a token that would be difficult and expensive to replace, and there are those of us who feel the potential threat of proxy weapons of any sort outweighs any potential benefit of their use.

This issue is one of those "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" situations. Most people who have valuable tokens have friends who could beenfit from borrowing them. Most of us say "how could that be bad?". The problems I see with proxies or surrogates or whatever you want to call them (and I've already seen) is the guy who shows up inside the dungeon with a whole bunch of commons he says represents a whole bunch of ultra rares. That's just not appropriate. Nobody wants to lose a valuable token in the dungeon, but not bringing them shouldn't be the answer to the problem.

Disbeeleaf wrote:


I don't think the discussion is about someone bringing a bunch of proxies in that they say represents a bunch of UR's that the person doesn't have with them. I think the discussion is around someone loaning out a proxy of a UR (and soon I'm sure Relic/Eldritch/Legendary) weapon for a friend to use on a run they are doing together, and that the person has the actual UR token with them for verification that they own the token. I don't think a proxy should ever be allowed if the person doesn't have the actual token on-hand for verification.

another problem you can have with proxy is a weighing issue. what to stop someone from making a proxy the heavy to help them control there slide better. or change the number on the ring of the proxy . in my opinion proxy are a very bad idea

As someone who supports a team of 10 friends, I use proxies (which are clearly marked as such) for weapons only and I carry the originals with me for validation and verification by the GMs.

I do this not because I do not trust my friends, but because I know how bad they would feel to loose one in the dark, in a moment of forgetfulness, or some other accident.

As long as you can 1) show you have the original 2)clearly mark the proxy as a proxy I am good with the practice.

In a situation where you are gaming with strangers, it allows you to build their excitement to get their own URs, thus inducting people into the Token collecting, encouraging larger purchases to get that PYP.

At this point I am glad TD has not taken an official stance on this, because it does show they trust us to make the best judgement call on a person by person basis. As stated earlier TD is about the honor system, if someone wants to game the system and cheat, they will.

Where the issue is, in my mind, is in the unscrupulous trades. I wish I could say how to spot one outside of the plastic cover, but I don't know.

Perhaps that is a service that could be made available at the convention for UR trades, token verification (kind of like the pen they use for $100 bills at the store) to ensure it's a real token.

Anyway that is my 2CP.

slith wrote:

What's to stop someone from doing these things with an original?

Here is a picture of Quip's (NOT Picc's) proxy. And it is clearly NOT a legitimate token.

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EN 429 wrote:


I thought that was the rare Black and White variant token. I traded for 10 of those just yesterday

Mike Steele wrote:




If so, I'd say you got "mauled" (insert rimshot here)

sorry, couldn't pass up on the pun.

If only we ALL had access to such crappy black and white copiers! Curse you Xerox, for your high quality colorful images!

binia wrote:



Now I feel privileged to have access to such a crappy old copier.